Hi.
I would say that sometimes the betas do beta things and having autoupdates might not be a good thing. That is why I keep an eye on the forums to look out for the rare dud. _________________ Netgear XR500 - Gateway
R6700 v3 - Station Bridge
Or actually the lack of a stable fork, but that would mean two forks to maintain.
The lack of (public) staging repository(ies) while having a single development branch and not having master, beta, final, etc. branches for development is where this firmware project differs with others currently out there. The functionality is there in subversion, it's just not being used that we're aware of. Use of personal forks or local working copies does not apply to what I am referring to - although many times this is how people test their possible development contributions prior to submission provided they have a working build system to compile test firmware images (or not).
MoreBloodWine wrote:
As a final thought process, before dealing with usage tracking. If everything for the most part is automatic with a simple manual trigger for the router db downloads as someone said. Then let me ask you this question; Why has nobody set that up on a Cron job yet for say every 30 days at x time ?
Wouldn't this require firmware image uploads to the public servers to be completed at a specific pre-determined time? I think this would require a fairly rigid schedule and previously-mentioned testing collaboration being done on a set schedule. Too many variables for that to happen "on time", but I like this idea. _________________ "The woods are lovely, dark and deep,
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep." - Robert Frost
"I am one of the noticeable ones - notice me" - Dale Frances McKenzie Bozzio
Or actually the lack of a stable fork, but that would mean two forks to maintain.
The lack of (public) staging repository(ies) while having a single development branch and not having master, beta, final, etc. branches for development is where this firmware project differs with others currently out there. The functionality is there in subversion, it's just not being used that we're aware of. Use of personal forks or local working copies does not apply to what I am referring to - although many times this is how people test their possible development contributions prior to submission provided they have a working build system to compile test firmware images (or not).
MoreBloodWine wrote:
As a final thought process, before dealing with usage tracking. If everything for the most part is automatic with a simple manual trigger for the router db downloads as someone said. Then let me ask you this question; Why has nobody set that up on a Cron job yet for say every 30 days at x time ?
Wouldn't this require firmware image uploads to the public servers to be completed at a specific pre-determined time? I think this would require a fairly rigid schedule and previously-mentioned testing collaboration being done on a set schedule. Too many variables for that to happen "on time", but I like this idea.
never said it would be easier, but certainly and forgive the word... a damn sight better than the current scenarios playing out.
Just my 2 c, I'm saying it should have at least been investigated. I mean w all the knowledgeable ppl here. U really going to suggest between them all that no working solutions can be found which. When a working one is, guess what; It saves the overhead issues they're currently facing w the db staying manually updated. _________________
Statistically speaking, let me put it this way. Where do you think a 100% of or let's just say even (being extremely generous) 70% of new users are going to go. Right to that damn database page lol _________________
Joined: 31 Jul 2021 Posts: 2146 Location: All over YOUR webs
Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2022 20:56 Post subject:
MoreBloodWine wrote:
Ok, so if maintaining is the issue and I said I'd basically sign legal. What's the deal, I'm literally home 247 day trading crypto. But the fact I have far n few between issues it's whatever to me. But u have the offer...
You can offer, but unless you work for the company they wont give access (and I have a sneaking suspicion that even if you work there they dont just dole out those keys to that kingdom). But thanks for offering, I'll pass your offer along, best I can do.
MoreBloodWine wrote:
Statistically speaking, let me put it this way. Where do you think a 100% of or let's just say even (being extremely generous) 70% of new users are going to go. Right to that damn database page lol
Statistics... So I can say that 100% that go there dont read (the disclaimer), obviously reading is such a thing of the past. So in that sense, you get what you paid for.
Ok, so if maintaining is the issue and I said I'd basically sign legal. What's the deal, I'm literally home 247 day trading crypto. But the fact I have far n few between issues it's whatever to me. But u have the offer...
You can offer, but unless you work for the company they wont give access. But thanks for offering, I'll pass your offer along, best I can do.
Works for me, but technically the offer would include pro Bono employment because like I said I don't do, to be extremely Blunt, Jack shit at home 90% of the time anyway so I admittedly do go a little stir crazy when I don't have a bowl to smoke. But I'm open to at least negotiate the idea of said offer. _________________
Ok, so if maintaining is the issue and I said I'd basically sign legal. What's the deal, I'm literally home 247 day trading crypto. But the fact I have far n few between issues it's whatever to me. But u have the offer...
You can offer, but unless you work for the company they wont give access (and I have a sneaking suspicion that even if you work there they dont just dole out those keys to that kingdom). But thanks for offering, I'll pass your offer along, best I can do.
MoreBloodWine wrote:
Statistically speaking, let me put it this way. Where do you think a 100% of or let's just say even (being extremely generous) 70% of new users are going to go. Right to that damn database page lol
Statistics... So I can say that 100% that go there dont read (the disclaimer), obviously reading is such a thing of the past. So in that sense, you get what you paid for.
Ill stop making a fuss about it, no skin in that game.
Also, if we're speaking statistics lol. You're not right but you're also not wrong. In the sense that you're also not including any number of set of rules and scenarios that could very well play out. Point is no numbers are ever going to be a 100% true. But I guarantee you more people go straight to that database page than you think. _________________
That, and most people seem to have the attention span of a gnat, maybe? <shrug> _________________ "The woods are lovely, dark and deep,
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep." - Robert Frost
"I am one of the noticeable ones - notice me" - Dale Frances McKenzie Bozzio
Joined: 31 Jul 2021 Posts: 2146 Location: All over YOUR webs
Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2022 8:07 Post subject:
MoreBloodWine wrote:
Point is no numbers are ever going to be a 100% true.
Statistics, especially those made up on the spot are never right.
MoreBloodWine wrote:
But I guarantee you more people go straight to that database page than you think.
This isn't news, we are all acutely aware that a unspecified number of users goto the router database and like you end up with two year old firmware and don't read the disclaimer either. This is a foregone conclusion.
If I take reports in forums into consideration and form some loose estimates of people running router database releases, we are talking about around 20% of reports, some reports specify older builds very few maybe 4%, a smaller percentage still on kong builds and recently upgraded around 2% and the larger percentage are on some newer fw builds but still outdated around 90% with the remainder of users, around 10% being on current builds.
I can actually try get numbers based on downloads of router database vs regular downloads but those aren't representative of any specific percentage of users because DD-WRT collects no user data, telemetry or anything else of that sort.
The point in the end is, I can guarantee you that the percentage of users that read are on the 1% and 99% dont read anything. This is the usual problem in any project I have been part of for the last 20 years, its not DD-WRT specific, its a widespread know fact.
MoreBloodWine wrote:
Why has nobody set that up on a Cron job yet for say every 30 days at x time ?
The process is automated but is manually triggered for different valid reasons.
The cron job will never happen, I can guarantee you that, because builds need to be tested in a number of routers before they can go into the database and in case you haven't noticed yet, none of us work for DD-WRT as in actually paid employees, and there are only two people who can do this update and only one who can do the testing because of access to the large number of different devices the tests have to be done on before builds are updated.
So, it pours down to this, since the only person who can test is the main developer and you cant split one person into ten, he knows very well that there are issues blocking this update that must be resolved, like builds too big to name one of the few blockers.
Joined: 08 May 2018 Posts: 14247 Location: Texas, USA
Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2022 16:48 Post subject:
the-joker wrote:
I can actually try get numbers based on downloads of router database vs regular downloads but those aren't representative of any specific percentage of users because DD-WRT collects no user data, telemetry or anything else of that sort.
Could you please explain to us how you came to this conclusion, because I am pretty sure that there are server logs, not to mention, the router database download links are connected to the other download resource links (that's how they're populated as they are symlinks as it was explained to me). In the past, when there were more users active in and posting build threads instead of just one person (around 4 years ago), I'm sure there was more telemetry involved, just like I'm sure that everything I did with good intention screwed the pooch on this. This seems like a grossly incorrect conclusion to me, especially when there is a disclaimer on this forum about IP address information being collected. You did read the terms of service blurb when you registered, didn't you? While there is no telemetry collected by the firmware itself via something similar to tomatoanon script, the servers that provide DD-WRT's web presence do collect data. Thinking otherwise is like having one's head planted firmly in the sand. _________________ "Life is but a fleeting moment, a vapor that vanishes quickly; All is vanity"
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My final say in the matter is that legal does matter. If I'm bound by a clause and willing to work for free to help offset said workload(s), and that helps declined even w legal. Then the bigger question gets raised of what's really going on w ppl willing to help but no one willing to talk to them... food for thought. But Im moving over to yamon now.
To be clear. Even w out legal, I know more than me r willing to help, yet they're no where to be seen... _________________
Oh ,and while we've addressed me attention span issues. Crons are 110% doable if pooled from completed vs untested folders that then populate the router db.
I do similar tasks on my own server, so I do know what I'm talking about in this aspect. Something it seems has NEVER been considered. _________________
Joined: 31 Jul 2021 Posts: 2146 Location: All over YOUR webs
Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2022 19:42 Post subject:
I think attention span or no, we (IMO) have exhausted the talking points.
Nothing new was discussed, no new issues were approached and despite the kind offers, which I have passed along, we are in no position as volunteers to make any determinations on what is decided behind curtains.