Pogo - A minimal level of ability is expected and needed...

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Donny
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 22:43    Post subject: Pogo - A minimal level of ability is expected and needed... Reply with quote
There have been a number of posts lately from people who are unable to grasp basic concepts of networking, or appear to not want to do a minimal amount of work to get to the point where they understand what they are doing or need to do. If you have been referred to this thread, it is because someone has formed the opinion that this applies to you.

It is important to understand that dd-wrt is third party firmware that is wonderful in so many ways, but it is still in development. To deal with these development issues, you need to have a basic level of understanding of your computers and some very minimal ability to alter settings.

For example, if you can't at this point, set your computer to a static IP address, you likely should improve your understanding and skill level prior to doing a flash of an alternative firmware on your router. In the thread linked below, the immortal Geetek, when asked to explain how to set a static address eloquently refused, stating:

Fraid not. That is a very minimal level of technical understanding. If I answer that question there will be 25 more that you will need to have answered. Your current level of technical expertise is below the minimum to be f-ing around with alternate firmware on yer router. Study up or get a computer nerd to help you out with your objectives.
(Censored for public consumption)

http://www.dd-wrt.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=33979

Also, do SOME homework prior to posting. At the very least do a search on the subject and read the WIKI. If you haven't done that before you post, people will not be as helpful as if they see that you have.

And, if someone sends you a link to read, READ it CAREFULLY. They have spent time doing a little bit of work for you. No one will be helpful if we feel that you expect us to be doing more on your issue that you are.

People around here are helpful and this is a great community, but you are expected to meet minimal requirements.

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jmh9072
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 2:19    Post subject: Reply with quote
Great post, Donny. The search bar and wiki are extremely underused by those who could really benefit from using them. Asking questions is good, for the most part. It's a great way to learn and you'll be better off than the guy who didn't ask and didn't research.

However, many questions can be easily answered by doing a bit of research. If you can't find it after 10 minutes in the wiki, or by searching the forums and google, then a new thread is probably in order.

(Oh, and haha, great quote by GeeTek. I remember that thread Very Happy)

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Donny
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 2:30    Post subject: Reply with quote
jmh9072 wrote:
However, many questions can be easily answered by doing a bit of research.


And, in fairness, many can't.

And as you point out, people should not be discouraged from posting. However I do find it frustrating when people ask about the status of the wrt610, when there is a 40 page post on the status of the wrt610 three posts down from their question.

And some people just should not, with their current level of understanding, be flashing firmware just because they read about it on the internet without understanding very basic things. It's not that they should not use dd-wrt, but they should spend a few hours learning some basics first.

I am thinking those that haven't reached that level should be sent to this post. Perhaps links to some basic information could be added to this thread.

Searching for pogo only gives three results...kind of makes me wonder what is in those other two threads.

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phecksel
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Joined: 28 Jun 2006
Posts: 60

PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 5:44    Post subject: Reply with quote
I'm a relatively proficient computer USER, with some reasonable BASIC networking skills. Some threads and wiki articles are outstanding, laying things out in an easy to understand step by step process, others, well appear to have been written by a martian who is bothered because people just don't get it.

My own frustration with the peacock thread when it was relatively new, was one incomplete post with pages and pages of arguing about nonsense. the first and critical first post has evolved into something that is somewhat useful, but still is written in geek for geeks.

When I wanted to start using a bridge, I read what seemed like 25 threads and 1/2 dozen wiki articles. Still not sure I understand the differences between clients, bridge, client bridges. What I did find was ONE article that made the entire process easy to implement and best of all, it worked!

Couple of years ago I was looking for some technical information on another topic and came across a web site that had some incredibly intelligent people who got so tired of helping people their advice was either use the search button or even worse made fun of them. Looking at the posts, none of the new registered users ever stuck around and 95% of the posts were the same 8-10 people making fun of the newbies or talking among themselves.

DD-WRT is an incredibly powerful and useful product, albeit very complicated. I personally understand less then 1% of what it does, and almost afraid to ask a question, because one of the first responses is going to be to read the peacock thread. In fact, when I had the weird hardware failure, that's exactly one of the responses, read the peacock thread.

Patience and support can go a long way
phuque99
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Joined: 20 Oct 2008
Posts: 446

PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 6:37    Post subject: Reply with quote
Unfortunately, that's why its called a community. Bear in mind that dd-wrt is free, and people post for free here, completely without money or tangible reward. Repeated questions are bound to bore people that stay around and read often.

On the bright side, it is also free for anyone to register any nick and shoot of free easy questions without making a single effort in reading or doing research. The same freedom applies for anyone to answer anything, even if you don't like or don't expect the response. Keyword: FREE

If you get free coffee, you can't really complain its too bitter or not sweet enough, can you? If you are paying premium Starbucks, you can demand skim milk and 10 packets of sugar. Keyword: PAID

Thus I believe if you want something free, you don't walk right up to a community in real life, start asking questions, throw tantrums if you don't get the answer. Instead, you show effort, show that you've tried your best, ask something specific and make it very easy for someone who can help to answer willingly.

Edit: see this sticky thread:
http://www.dd-wrt.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=327

You'll notice that very often, if that sticky thread is read and followed, comments will come pouring in.
Donny
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 10:27    Post subject: Reply with quote
phecksel wrote:
My own frustration with the peacock thread when it was relatively new, was one incomplete post with pages and pages of arguing about nonsense. the first and critical first post has evolved into something that is somewhat useful, but still is written in geek for geeks.


This statement is not entirely accurate. The peacock thread was written by someone who knew very little about routers (check out the early posts) and had been in the community for less than a month.....certainly not a geek or capable of geek speak. And the fundamentals have not changed since it was initially written. It was written by a noob, for noobs.

And it remains a starting point for anyone who doesn't provide enough information for others to know that the points it raises have already been covered. Either we re-type those points over and over, or we send you there. There are likely more than 5000 posts on this forum telling people to do a hard reset.....and if they haven't done that, they likely need to know about not loading config files too.

The peacock thread does clearly state not to go on and read the debate about the 30-30-30 reset. If a person chooses to, that's fine; but if they think they have to, then they didn't read it carefully.

I do, however, want this thread to be helpful, and not a debate about the philosophy of helping others; that is a philosophy that each person who responds is entitled to choose for themselves.

So anyone have any basic networking links to post?

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barryware
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 20:46    Post subject: Reply with quote
Bump.. Gonna use it!
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ad5mb
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 21:04    Post subject: Reply with quote
So what you're saying is...

the Board helps those who help themselves

When a free minute wanders past, I intend to write some wikis:

    What WRT to use for what task;

    What firmware does what for beginners;

    What the various repeating and client modes do. All in one page.


You may want to write a Network 101 links wiki, instead of a thread where every 12th post has one link.

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Eaglebird
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 22:16    Post subject: Reply with quote
Voting for sticky.
Donny
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 0:47    Post subject: Reply with quote
ad5mb wrote:
You may want to write a Network 101 links wiki, instead of a thread where every 12th post has one link.


Peacock thread gets about 300 hits a day. Prior to being written, every second post was telling people to do a hard reset. Trust me....the repetition on the board has decreased dramatically since it was written.

It is a sticky. It links to the important wiki pages. It is mentioned on the install of the wiki as necessary reading. BUT....people still don't bother to read it to find the answer that they need, which is there.

If people read it, there would be no need to send them to read it. Of course, if people read the wiki there would be no need for 9/10 posts on the forum.

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Peacock Thread Sticky- Just read it! (Anyone using SP1 will be taken out back and shot)
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barryware
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 20:30    Post subject: Reply with quote
bump
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the-joker
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2022 12:42    Post subject: Reply with quote
More important than using search and or wiki when you have questions still, is to know how to ask questions in the right way. Like http://linuxsilo.net/docs/smart-questions_en.html

And in addition to supply screenshots of configs and debug logs.

The intrawebs is plagued by such flood of people who claim in cases to be a insert-nr-of-years IT this or that, yet, rare are the cases still where people provide actionable information when seeking help or asking questions, and in some small cases get offended when we keep pointing it out.

We live in a strange world where most regular users expect that their two lines of minimal or no effort will get them help from free volunteers on a free software they dont pay for or contribute to, to be bothered to even reply or answer them or suggest things.

So here is to lazy farts, stop being lazy, if you want help, help us help you better first, else if you cant be bothered with being nice, go ask somewhere else. Wink

Yep, I necroposted, it happened, deal with it. Cool

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