Mesh Networking 802.11s

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mark74
DD-WRT Novice


Joined: 16 Nov 2021
Posts: 31

PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2023 6:27    Post subject: Reply with quote
I am already on vanilla and is using 80MHz. Tried the lower and upper bands in 5G and results are more or less same. Google devices doesn't play well with dd-wrt.

I had noticed the same issue when I used a broadcom based ASUS router as a repeater. That is why I thought I will try a qualcom router as WDS hoping that will improve it with identical firmware/wireless options. But I am seeing exact same results.

If I reboot, it seems to maintain the speed for sometime, but drops the speed within a day in the WDS configuration.
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matjazk
DD-WRT User


Joined: 21 Aug 2019
Posts: 120
Location: Here, There And Everywhere

PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2023 9:12    Post subject: Reply with quote
I strongly suggest that you look for the list of valid VHT80 channels in DD-WRT Wiki. I found out that some devices are very picky about this. For example, my Samsung tablet will connect to practically anything while my Samsung phone (same generation) will connect only when a valid channel is selected.
mark74
DD-WRT Novice


Joined: 16 Nov 2021
Posts: 31

PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2023 18:04    Post subject: Reply with quote
I did check and most of the channels in the picklist show up as valid in the wiki. Most channels appear to be valid and I checked the settings from msoengineer as well

https://wiki.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/QCA_wireless_settings

It looks like my TV that used to connect just fine can no longer find the 5GHz Channel even after I restored the setting back to "mixed".

Is there a list of valid channels that works for WDS setup, if I need to use "AC/N Mixed" on 5GHz (that I want to use for WDS AP --> WDS Station)?

Other option may be to force google devices to 2.4Ghz network during their setup (assuming those are dual band).

Or I may have to factory reset everything and start again, but I can't do that right now.
ho1Aetoo
DD-WRT Guru


Joined: 19 Feb 2019
Posts: 3116
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2023 18:14    Post subject: Reply with quote
The GUI also automatically selects the correct extension channel - but you can change the extension channels after saving/applying and select an invalid configuration (which is a bug)

You can also enable "allow channel overlapping" then all invalid combinations will be displayed right away.

But only applies to 80/160Mhz
40Mhz is not filtered properly and shows also the invalid configurations.
80+80Mhz is also not filtered properly
matjazk
DD-WRT User


Joined: 21 Aug 2019
Posts: 120
Location: Here, There And Everywhere

PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2023 20:18    Post subject: Reply with quote
@ho1Aetoo So which VHT80+80 are valid then? Wiki has only VHT80 and VHT160.
ho1Aetoo
DD-WRT Guru


Joined: 19 Feb 2019
Posts: 3116
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2023 8:15    Post subject: Reply with quote
https://svn.dd-wrt.com/ticket/6965#comment:164

i sent the list to edit the wiki 2 years ago - well you can see that nothing has happened for 2 years.


Very Happy

Edit: if someone is willing to edit the wiki then i can also provide the HT40 list
ian5142
DD-WRT Guru


Joined: 23 Oct 2013
Posts: 2319
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2023 12:34    Post subject: Wiki Reply with quote
ho1Aetoo wrote:
https://svn.dd-wrt.com/ticket/6965#comment:164

i sent the list to edit the wiki 2 years ago - well you can see that nothing has happened for 2 years.


Very Happy

Edit: if someone is willing to edit the wiki then i can also provide the HT40 list


I just edited the wiki with your long list from the link above, scroll up a bit from here due to the header: https://forum.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/QCA_wireless_settings#Valid_VHT80.2B80_Channels:

_________________
Before asking a question on the forums, update dd-wrt: Where do I download firmware? I suggest reading it all.
QCA Best WiFi Settings


Some dd-wrt wiki pages are up to date, others are not. PM me if you find an old one.

Atheros:
Netgear R7800 x3 - WDS AP / station, gateway, QoS
TP-Link Archer C7 v2 x2 - WDS Station
TP-Link TL-WDR3600 v1 - WDS Station
TP-Link 841nd v8 - NU
D-Link 615 C1/E3/I1 x 7 - 1 WDS station
D-Link 825 B1 - NU
D-Link 862L A1 x2 - WDS Station
Netgear WNDR3700v2 - NU
UBNT loco M2 x2 - airOS

Broadcom
Linksys EA6400 - Gateway, QoS
Asus N66U - AP
Netgear WNDR3700v3 - not used
MediaTek
UBNT EdgeRouter X - switch
ho1Aetoo
DD-WRT Guru


Joined: 19 Feb 2019
Posts: 3116
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2023 13:02    Post subject: Reply with quote
@ian5142

thank you!
yes the list is long but there are many combinations from the two 80mhz blocks
ho1Aetoo
DD-WRT Guru


Joined: 19 Feb 2019
Posts: 3116
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2023 14:24    Post subject: Reply with quote
here is the HT40 list

Code:
36+U
40+L
44+U
48+L

52+U
56+L
60+U
64+L

100+U
104+L
108+U
112+L

116+U
120+L
124+U
128+L

132+U
136+L
140+U
144+L

149+U
153+L
157+U
161+L


I leave out the upper UnII-4 channels, they are mostly not supported anyway.
165-177 are allowed in the USA but have an IR flag (No Initiating Radiation) and therefore can not be used in AP mode

Code:
(5850 - 5895 @ 40), (27), NO-OUTDOOR, AUTO-BW, NO-IR


Code:
Channel 169 (primary) not allowed for AP mode, flags: 0x10003 NO-IR


well other combinations can be used but it always depends on the clients, most of the time clients don't like unusual combinations and then refuse the service.

Code:
capabilities/regulatory prevented using AP HT/VHT configuration, downgraded

AP VHT information doesn't match HT

etc..
mark74
DD-WRT Novice


Joined: 16 Nov 2021
Posts: 31

PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2023 0:36    Post subject: Reply with quote
I am using one of the allowed bands in the list in VHT80 -44+LU.

But when I switch the mode to "AC/N Mixed", I lose connectivity to some of the devices. It works fine with "mixed" mode, but mixed mode slows down over a day or so.

I have noticed this after setting up the WDS AP-WDS station with two routers. I don't recall this issue with just one router.
sope
DD-WRT Novice


Joined: 25 Jul 2022
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2024 16:33    Post subject: Mesh Networking 802.11s Reply with quote
I am going to prewarn anyone who reads this that you will likely not appreciate how wordy this is. I think I earned the right to be wordy as I have been using DD-WRT quietly since around 1998 AND I ACTUALLY HAVE MADE DONATIONS. I will not brag about my donations because (due to live events) I am on very limited and fixed income. BUT AT LEAST I MAKE DONATIONS and if I was to come onto DD-WRT to complain I think I would wait until I rule out the basics which includes resetting to default and I always power off the router and reset defaults between the initial stock to DD-WRT firmware and the first loading of DD-WRT. From that point on, if I have a problem I reset the router to default and may go back to known good before complaining. Sorry I don't have time to contribute in Forums. Most forums include people posting their opinions about topics even though they never even tried it..which is what appears to be the main problem with this thread. One guy asks about 802.11s Mesh 3 years ago and nobody who actually ever successfully used it has responded but there is lots of "advice" posted.

I have been using 802.11s MESH for the past 3-4 years with 4 Archer C7v4 routers. (Can't remember since the lockdown) I tried to put some videos on youtube about it but never got any views and or I got some responses that were criticism and or not even related to 802.11s MESH which is NOT WDS because if I was still using WDS I would only be able to use 3 routers instead of 4 and only the AP can see the other two routers where the stations can only see the AP of the WDS BRIDGE. With 802.11s Mesh all Mesh Points can see each other.

There are many issues one has to consider and I am not one with the techno lingo or patience to try to explain. However, I will tell you that WDS is NOT 802.11s MESH which is a router only protocol and thus more secure than WDS and every router configured to run 802.11s MESH can see each other because the point of running 802.11s MESH is to have a secondary path in case the preferred path to ROOT is down. This is where proper configuration of STP comes to play and there is much more to configuring STP than just turning it on. You can get away with simply turning on STP when running WDS and think that you actually need it. When I was using WDS I actually turned STP off and there was no effect on my WDS network. I only did this after finding some documentation out there "somewhere" within the DD-WRT Forum saying you don't really need it. So I tried it and I was like..wow, he's right. (guess what, that guy was actually experienced, I could tell by his posted "crudentials" vs everyone else who chimes in with opinions without actually hands on.)

A problem with DD-WRT (and I do not mean to be rude but just being honest as I truely respect that there are people much more knowledgeable than I that develop DD-WRT and I fully respect that they take the time to do so...AGAIN I WILL SAY THAT I ACTUALLY HAVE SENT DONATIONS..not as many as I wish I could but I am on limited / fixed income) is that people start posting about what they never even tried which is what most of this threat has in it....One person asking if anyone has any experience with 802.11s MESH and others who have never used it or even tried it giving their opinion. Honestly, I might have spotted this back in 2021 and been able to help out by chiming in but I only look to the forums if I have a problem because I don't have time to spend in communities where people sometimes chime in and aren't that knowledgeable or they chime in before they even rule out the basics of the problems they are having by RESETTING DEFAULTS and starting from scratch.....taking things at a layered approach...always make a note of known good firmware so you can revert back WHICH I RARELY HAVE TO DO with routers that others are complaining about. Maybe its because I always power off and or reset defaults after every firmware loading step when moving from stock to DD-WRT.

So if you took time to read all that you get the prize.

Now I will tell you the secret to getting 802.11s MESH to work properly with much more reading and I think I earned the right to be wordy with my frustrations and experience because I have used DD-WRT since 1998 and although I have been very quiet in this forum, since I actually have made some donations, I think I earned the right to be a bit wordy right now. ESPECIALLY SINCE I WAS UP POST MIDNIGHT AFTER ASSUMING I COULD UPGRADE MY FIRMWARE ON EA8500 Mesh Point without it going into a boot loop and forcing me to take it apart and revert back to https://mrjcd.com/EA8500_DD-WRT/ which is NOT fun at all because it does not always work the first time and trying to at least get back to version posted on 9/08/23 is not easy if you are stubborn like me wanting to try the release posted on 3/3/24 again.

YOU NEED TO UNDERSTAND SPANNING TREE PROTOCOL WHICH IS MORE THAN JUST TURNING IT ON. Once you start using 802.11s MESH all of your Mesh Points (which are stations on a router protocol where only routers can see each other and communicate to each other to find the best path to root or alternate path if best path goes down..(trying to use layman terms because thats all I am even though I was a lead security admin (trained at sans dot org) for major rail car producer until in a serious accident) will elect one router (the one with the lowest alphanumeric value for bridge ID) as the ROOT ROUTER. If you don't get this right, your mesh network will work but you will not be able to manage it until you can be connected through your root router.

BRIDGE ID = PRIORITY + VLAN# + BASE MAC

So then you got this Networking Page on DD-WRT..setup/networking where STP PRIORITY can be set under BRIDGING. This is where STP is actually configured and I never seen any post in 25 years talking about. You can use this to override your bridge ID if you don't want to take time to put your Mesh Points in proper order.

You might want to let yourself some space between the values just in case you are like me and don't have any patience for math and or do not remember if the letter A is 11. I think it goes 0123456789 and then A is 11 and B is 12 and so forth. I don't have patience for that and this can be a huge pain in the arse if you didn't buy your routers all at the same time (like from cisco) instead of just pulling throwaways out of recycling bins or talking people down really cheap, periodically on Ebay.

Default Priority for a router is 32768. If you want to designate a router to be ROOT you can use 0. However it is not recommended to use 0 so that you have that available in case of an emergency.

BRIDGE ID = PRIORITY + VLAN# + BASE MAC

I hope all this makes sense. I got slammed 40' and bounced several times before they dug me out years ago and that ended my career in Information Technology.

I play round with Mesh on my IOT while picking routers thrown away by rich people at the recycling dump AND/OR I occasionally buy one someone is selling on eBay. I don't always make the best choice. For instance, I wish I would have read what a pain in the ___ the ea8500 is before buying two of them. I can't help wondering if the main developers of DD-WRT (who must be older than me) have retired or are dying off and nobody is really spending time to develop the firmware COMPLETELY. Thus any attempt to upgrade to "latest beta version" in hopes for improvement can result in a nightmare that is not an adventure.

My best advice to everyone is once you get your mesh points working, never upgrade firmware again unless you have a test bed router. I only periodically upgrade the router that is my Internet Gateway and that is risky because I don't own two XR500s. I could end up changing that if some Rich Liberal finally throws away a WRT3200ACM because he wants a smart router that monitors every thought he has. Personally I intend to buy another router again for more than $25 + shipping on eBay. I might move it to $35 because of Bidenomics.

Oh, I need to add that I picked u 3 Ubiquiti 8 port 1GB switches that played a huge role in helping me understand the whole BRIDGE ID vs LOOPS which you will not see within your DD-WRT 802.11s MESH Network even if you do think you have the STP Priority configured correctly. Thus unless you are crazy like me, stick to WDS for Dummies and you will be smarter than I who am only using 802.11s Mesh because I want a SECONDARY ROOT PATH if the Primary Root Path goes down. I had that all working well until I got the crazy idea to start upgrading my Archer C7v4 MPs with more processor power and I chose the EA8500 without first spotting that my decision has turned into a nightmare because the beta firmware releases can no longer be trusted. YES I KNOW WHAT BETA MEANS but I don't understand why what didn't need fixed between known good to the next release gets broken.
So I post some helpful advice with my RANT.

BRIDGE ID = PRIORITY + VLAN# + BASE MAC. Know this and understand this before you start out like me and decide to convert your already working WDS Network AP and stations to 802.11s on the 5Ghz Network using WPA3 Personal/SAE with COMP-128 (AES). Security might not even ben necessary because nobody is going to get onto your 802.11s Mesh unless they also have a router that can do 802.11s Mesh but its nice to have the added layer of security. Once you go to 802.11s Mesh don't expect any speed because when you use DD-WRT and go to router instead of Gateway the speed chipset gets broken unless maybe you have broadcom and I don't think you can 802.11s mesh nor WDS..and well I am done.

I might make a video showing how well I have this working on 3 buildings, 2 of which are brick, on two lots where there is at least 100' between wired backbone and the farthest security camera of 12 cams ..and I can refurbish TVS and watch movies in the farthest building of my DD-WRT IOT Mesh network without any problems.

However, I think I might try Tomato for the first time because of what I have experienced with recent firmware releases of DD-WRT.
Alozaros
DD-WRT Guru


Joined: 16 Nov 2015
Posts: 6526
Location: UK, London, just across the river..

PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2024 18:42    Post subject: Reply with quote
jss, that was a 'lots of typing'...couldn't read it all in a one go Laughing
but anyway..thanks for the step by step guide..Laughing
and good luck with Tomatos...

_________________
Atheros
TP-Link WR740Nv1 ---DD-WRT 56941 WAP
TP-Link WR1043NDv2 -DD-WRT 56941 Gateway/DoT,Forced DNS,Ad-Block,Firewall,x4VLAN,VPN
TP-Link WR1043NDv2 -Gargoyle OS 1.15.x AP,DNS,QoS,Quotas
Qualcomm-Atheros
Netgear XR500 --DD-WRT 57515 Gateway/DoH,Forced DNS,AP Isolation,4VLAN,Ad-Block,Firewall,Vanilla
Netgear R7800 --DD-WRT 57525 Gateway/DoT,AD-Block,Forced DNS,AP&Net Isolation,x3VLAN,Firewall,Vanilla
Netgear R9000 --DD-WRT 57515 Gateway/DoT,AD-Block,AP Isolation,Firewall,Forced DNS,x2VLAN,Vanilla
Broadcom
Netgear R7000 --DD-WRT 55460 Gateway/SmartDNS/DoH,AD-Block,Firewall,Forced DNS,x3VLAN,VPN
NOT USING 5Ghz ANYWHERE
------------------------------------------------------
Stubby DNS over TLS I DNSCrypt v2 by mac913
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