asking for clarity on gigabit wan

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Gameman Advanced Kid
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2021 7:57    Post subject: asking for clarity on gigabit wan Reply with quote
Never thought I would see the day where I can actually afford and make use of 1gbps internet at my place.

I been thinking about making use of it for helping with testing out dd-wrt.

IDK how or what I would be looking for exactly in testing dd-wrt on a gigabit WAN internet connection.

Can anyone help me add to the list of reasons why I should get gigabit internet for helping out in testing dd-wrt?

It is fine if there is no benefit. Just trying to help out a bit.

Many thanks!

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2021 8:54    Post subject: Reply with quote
you would need a router that can see/utilise that speed
like R9000 or R7800 ...

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kernel-panic69
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2021 9:18    Post subject: Reply with quote
I think either router he has in his signature would work, esp. the WRT32x (as compared to the R7800).

https://wikidevi.wi-cat.ru/Linksys_WRT1900AC_v1

https://wikidevi.wi-cat.ru/Linksys_WRT32X

https://wikidevi.wi-cat.ru/Netgear_R7800

The only advantage of the R9000 / XR700 is quad-core cpu (and lots of RAM).

https://wikidevi.wi-cat.ru/Netgear_R9000

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ho1Aetoo
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2021 10:16    Post subject: Reply with quote
The r7800 is actually too slow for gigabit speeds.

I manage to fully utilize the CPU with WLAN/LAN traffic.

When the R7800 is transmitting (TX) with 4 spatial streams then it has almost 100% CPU load at 800Mbit.

at least with dd-wrt / without the use of the 2 network accelerators.

There is no computing power left for WAN or other things.

It would need at least 4 of the 1.7Ghz Krait cores so that WLAN and WAN can be used simultaneously with high data rates.

LAN ---> upload --> WLAN
WAN ---> download --> LAN

so 2x 1Gbit - the maximum what is possible with the 1Gbit fullduplex switch

the r9000 could do that with its 4 CPU cores

if this is a non-symmetric WAN connection then you might need (or want) QoS as well.

and even the R9000 can't do that with simultaneous load on all interfaces.

that's where an x86 comes into play

and i don't know what you want to test with 1Gbit WAN, the limits are already more or less known for most routers
most home routers are too slow for that (at least 3rd party firmware and without hardware NAT or network accelerator)

i am also annoyed that the R7800 is the bottleneck in my network - respectively the slow processor
(with a processor twice as fast it would be great)
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2021 11:22    Post subject: Reply with quote
I wasn't going to play the x86 card, but that is the ideal solution, regardless of what you load on it.
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Gameman Advanced Kid
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2021 17:39    Post subject: Reply with quote
I have the following routers

WRT32X
Netgear R7800
Netgear R7500v2
x2 Netgear R7000
x2 WRT1900ACv1

And to give everyone a peace of mind here, I do have a Mikrotik RB4011. If that is not enough, I can step it up to a Mikrotik 1036 that I am trying to get a new replacement power supply for. If anyone is curious, its the first version Mikrotik came out with before they made a new version of it that has redundancy in the power supply.

Wireless I got covered.

EDIT: never mind. I did not fully read ho1Aetoo post.

so at this point, we know dd-wrt can do gigabit wan fine, it all just comes down to hardware then?

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Some Techicolor modem > Linksys WRT3200ACM

Internet connection 2
Ubiquiti Powerbeam Gen 2 > Netgear R9000

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ho1Aetoo
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2021 18:02    Post subject: Reply with quote
sure it's all a question of hardware, with a fast x86 you have about 10% CPU load at 900Mbit

See screenshot, the joke is that is a loop
x86 WLAN -> router -> x86 LAN

so on the x86 everything runs double (2x / iperf server and client)



x86.jpg
 Description:
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 Viewed:  2795 Time(s)

x86.jpg


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2021 11:17    Post subject: Reply with quote
ho1Aetoo wrote:
The r7800 is actually too slow for gigabit speeds.

I manage to fully utilize the CPU with WLAN/LAN traffic.

When the R7800 is transmitting (TX) with 4 spatial streams then it has almost 100% CPU load at 800Mbit.

at least with dd-wrt / without the use of the 2 network accelerators.

There is no computing power left for WAN or other things.

It would need at least 4 of the 1.7Ghz Krait cores so that WLAN and WAN can be used simultaneously with high data rates.

LAN ---> upload --> WLAN
WAN ---> download --> LAN

so 2x 1Gbit - the maximum what is possible with the 1Gbit fullduplex switch

the r9000 could do that with its 4 CPU cores

if this is a non-symmetric WAN connection then you might need (or want) QoS as well.

and even the R9000 can't do that with simultaneous load on all interfaces.

that's where an x86 comes into play

and i don't know what you want to test with 1Gbit WAN, the limits are already more or less known for most routers
most home routers are too slow for that (at least 3rd party firmware and without hardware NAT or network accelerator)

i am also annoyed that the R7800 is the bottleneck in my network - respectively the slow processor
(with a processor twice as fast it would be great)


Or overclocked within sane limits, not familiar with overclocking on those what default values are and what is possible without killing it.

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Gameman Advanced Kid
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2021 16:22    Post subject: Reply with quote
Well since you do mention overclocking, I imagine that would be easy if one were to cut out a piece of plastic and run water tubes to a water block on top.

or LN2 Very Happy

But jokes aside, I have seen that done before. But did water cooling a routers processor ever help with overclocking?

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Internet connection 2
Ubiquiti Powerbeam Gen 2 > Netgear R9000

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kernel-panic69
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2021 17:44    Post subject: Reply with quote
If the RF shields weren't in the way. Probably the best designs I have seen that allowed for cooling and adding fans are the Linksys WRT AC series devices. The fan in the R9000/XR700 is too small and I have yet to see or hear mine ever come on with the settings set low enough that it should run 24/7.

If you're not really worried about aesthetics or cosmetics, you can mount the thing on a wall and dremel out a hole and add a usb cooling fan for airflow. But if you're going to go to that extreme for gigabit WAN, might as well go with an x86_64 mini PC and call it a day.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2021 11:18    Post subject: Reply with quote
x86 is best proper option here, and it will last long term, well beyond 1gbps even with qos on (with proper decent hardware) once a 2.5gbps+ nic is added. my i3 4150 (cpu only here) can idle at less than 1.5w, mind u its undervolted.

if u dont know how or want to make ur own x86, theres several prebuilts.

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Gameman Advanced Kid
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2021 20:58    Post subject: Reply with quote
Oh I know. I mean originally, I was wondering as a beta tester if there was any benefit for dd-wrt testing for me to upgrade to 1gbps. But at this point, the firmware is capable AFAIK.

I would go x86, but I like keeping things small and compact. not a lot of space in some parts of my house. definitely not near my modem. So ARM is the way. though I rather go with a mikrotik RB4011 router, that I already own, than to take my chance with the R8900 and R9000 routers. From what I read, those routers have "SDS".

I think I rather try a Linksys WRT32x. I am not running anything elaborate on it anyway. So it should do the job, yeh?

Maybe my test results would also benefit for the marvell routers here. I know whats happened, but I would like to think "there's still some meat left on the ribs here".

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barryware wrote:
It takes a "community" to raise a router..


Internet Connection 1
Some Techicolor modem > Linksys WRT3200ACM

Internet connection 2
Ubiquiti Powerbeam Gen 2 > Netgear R9000

Official (but not really) dd-wrt General Discussion element/matrix chat

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kernel-panic69
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2021 21:23    Post subject: Reply with quote
Are we in Belfast, now, yeh? The x86_64 mini-PCs that are supported / would work aren't any bigger than the WRT32x. They're maybe the size of a standard cable modem.
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the-joker
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:12    Post subject: Reply with quote
Raspberry PI 4 with dd-wrt might be interesting with a daughter-board for any must additions like an extra Ethernet port, with an external switch, might work.

Or not! =)

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Gameman Advanced Kid
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 17:25    Post subject: Reply with quote
would be cool to be able to run a small X86 box with a built in switch all while being small.

or another ARM router thats like an R8900 or R9000 that doesnt have SDS.

never used one, but some forums sites have made me think twice about buying them.

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It takes a "community" to raise a router..


Internet Connection 1
Some Techicolor modem > Linksys WRT3200ACM

Internet connection 2
Ubiquiti Powerbeam Gen 2 > Netgear R9000

Official (but not really) dd-wrt General Discussion element/matrix chat

https://matrix.to/#/#dd-wrt-private-non-offical:matrix.org
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