Why isnt Cat6 AKA 10gb Ethernet common enough yet?

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Gameman Advanced Kid
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 8:15    Post subject: Why isnt Cat6 AKA 10gb Ethernet common enough yet? Reply with quote
I am speaking mainly from the LAN perspective for the HOME environment. I am one of those people who prefer making a network share/s and sending them to whichever computer they need to go to. Got tired of using flash drives.

Latest Sata SSDs are capable of doing 500-600MBps. Thats 5-6gbps.

NVME drives on the other hand are capable of doing 3,500MBps. thats around 28gbps.

And here we have CAT5E which does 1gbps. CAT6 would only make it go a bit faster. So anytime I transfer data across my wired network from one computer to another, I see it hit 900+mbps. And my computers have SSDs. A drive thats becoming more common in laptops specifically.

Yes, WAN connections are only just approaching 1gbps to households. But the thing is, CAT5E has been around for years. Since the Pentium 4 days if I am not mistaken!

So my question is, Why hasnt Cat6 become more common in the home? Are there not enough people interested in having an awesome LAN network AT LEAST for the sheer giggles of it?

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 8:59    Post subject: Reply with quote
Here in Germany, at least CAT7 cables have been installed in walls for at least 10 years.

Currently I think at least Cat.7 - 1,000 MHz (10Gbit)

But I mean what's the point? decent 10Gbit network cards like intel x550 or x710 cost >350€ and a small 10GBASE-T switch will also cost >400€.

Practically there are no devices with 10Gbit NIC's available.
Neither routers nor notebooks nor anything else.
And current Mainboards have bad 2,5Gbit Realtek NIC's

So 1Gbit will be fast enough for most people.
Better to wait a bit longer than to invest thousands of € and $.
kernel-panic69
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 10:37    Post subject: Reply with quote
Cat6 is only good to 55 meters (180 ft) @ 10GBASE-T; Cat6A is good for 100 meters (330 ft). Cat7 and Cat8 are... well: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO/IEC_11801#CAT7
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ho1Aetoo
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 11:26    Post subject: Reply with quote
It is also described in the article, CAT.7/7a cable have much better specifications than CAT.5/6 whatever
have less crosstalk and less noise

Problem is, however, that there are currently almost no connectors that meet the standards.

We like to use Draka UC900 cables that are specified with 900Mhz.

The best connectors that you can get for this are Hirose TM31 which are only specified for 500Mhz (CAT6A).

But then you really have a cable that can do 10Gbit over 100m without any problems.

And at some point, better connectors will appear again.

The point is simply that you use in the building installation cables that are future-proof.

https://www.drakauc.com/products/uc-data/cables/category-7/

https://www.hirose.com/eu/additional/pressreleases/tm31p_tm21_tm11_de.html
kernel-panic69
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 12:09    Post subject: Reply with quote
Indeed. Had we had at least Cat6A available and proper connectors when we did the backbone at any of the locations I worked in the late 90s, they wouldn't have had to redo it later Rolling Eyes Most contracts weren't wanting fiber optic at that time.
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ho1Aetoo
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 12:32    Post subject: Reply with quote
well there are already some, full metal connector field-configurable
but they are quite large and cost for CAT.8 around 20€ per piece
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2021 3:22    Post subject: Reply with quote
kernel-panic69 wrote:
Cat6 is only good to 55 meters (180 ft) @ 10GBASE-T; Cat6A is good for 100 meters (330 ft). Cat7 and Cat8 are... well: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO/IEC_11801#CAT7


In my home I have a mix of cat6 & cat5e cables connecting 10G switches. Cable lengths are under 50ft (<15m) without issue.

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Gameman Advanced Kid
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2021 3:23    Post subject: Reply with quote
kernel-panic69 wrote:
Cat6 is only good to 55 meters (180 ft) @ 10GBASE-T; Cat6A is good for 100 meters (330 ft). Cat7 and Cat8 are... well: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO/IEC_11801#CAT7


So I should have asked "Why isnt Cat6A more common in the home?"

So same distance as CAT5E which does about 350ft If I am not mistaken.

ho1Aetoo wrote:
So 1Gbit will be fast enough for most people.
Better to wait a bit longer than to invest thousands of € and $.


Gbit was included on computers back then and now with some, if not most, that were used by people who mainly surfed the net. So whats stopping the 10gbit nics from replacing gigabit nowadays?

Also, there were routers back at the begining of 2010's where you had routers like the Linksys E3000 including gigabit ethernet. Did it actually do 1gbps? idk. But I am sure it did make it well past 100mbps.

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Last edited by Gameman Advanced Kid on Tue Aug 24, 2021 6:25; edited 1 time in total
kernel-panic69
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2021 3:43    Post subject: Reply with quote
I could've adopted gigabit NICs and such at home early on, but I still would've had a bottleneck at the cable and dsl modems; this was when you paid top dollar for full duplex 1.5Mbit/s on telco lines if you were lucky enough to be where it was supported. #overtwennyearsago
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ho1Aetoo
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2021 6:38    Post subject: Reply with quote
Gameman Advanced Kid wrote:
kernel-panic69 wrote:
Cat6 is only good to 55 meters (180 ft) @ 10GBASE-T; Cat6A is good for 100 meters (330 ft). Cat7 and Cat8 are... well: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO/IEC_11801#CAT7


So I should have asked "Why isnt Cat6A more common in the home?"

So same distance as CAT5E which does about 350ft If I am not mistaken.

ho1Aetoo wrote:
So 1Gbit will be fast enough for most people.
Better to wait a bit longer than to invest thousands of € and $.


Gbit was included on computers back then and now with some, if not most, that were used by people who mainly surfed the net. So whats stopping the 10gbit nics from replacing gigabit nowadays?

Also, there were routers back at the begining of 2010's where you had routers like the Linksys E3000 including gigabit ethernet. Did it actually do 1gbps? idk. But I am sure it did make it well past 100mbps.


Chip power consumption up to 10W singleport 10Gbit up to 20W dualport 10Gbit

You have already noticed that 10Gbit cards are correspondingly large and have large heat sinks?
In addition, there is the price:

a normal motherboard costs 100-150€.
a modern dualport 10Gbit card costs at least twice as much

If you put the NIC on the board then the board no longer costs 150€ but 300-450€.

who should buy this?

And in small devices like notebooks, other problems arise:

too high power consumption
too large heat development
too little space etc

rather naive questions, if you ask me, where hardware manufacturers save on every cent
and consumers are not willing to spend much money either

the chips must be further downscaled to smaller structure widths so that they become smaller and more efficient and less expensive!

maybe you can still remember the first Gbit switches have consumed a lot of power and had active fans!!!


https://de.msi.com/Motherboard/MEG-Z590-GODLIKE/Specification

1x Aquantia® AQC107 10G LAN controller
1x Intel® I225-V 2.5G LAN

https://www.notebooksbilliger.de/msi+meg+z590+godlike+699715?nbbct=4004_ideal

just wait a few more years and 10gbit will be standard

and for the average customer, as i said, this is all relevant

they don't want to spend thousands of euros and don't want to have professional network equipment with whirring fans in the living room that makes the electricity meter rotate


and it's the same with routers

these are embedded devices

an r7800 cost ~150€ and consumes 7-15W (that's something people might be willing to pay for and put in their living room)

a single Aquantia NIC already costs 100€

and honestly don't know where the problem is with 1gbit LAN
1Gbit LAN allows transfer rates of ~111MegaBytes/second
that is 60GB in 10Min

10HD movies in 10min are too slow?
i doubt that the average consumer cares
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2021 10:00    Post subject: Reply with quote
10BASE2 is all you need, and no litter box.
Gameman Advanced Kid
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2021 14:28    Post subject: Reply with quote
@ho1AetooI

I dont watch movies. At least not much anymore.

Its games and operating systems that I would be transferring to and from my test bed and other computers for whenever I am changing drives on any of them. mainly the test bed and my laptop for whenever I am testing something.

I find it odd you say that 10gbit cards are large. They look about the same size as a regular gigabit card to me.

https://www.amazon.com/TP-Link-TX401-Ethernet-Supports-Including/dp/B08D71PVXG/ref=pd_lpo_1?pd_rd_i=B08D71PVXG&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/TP-Link-TX401-Ethernet-Supports-Including/dp/B08D71PVXG/ref=pd_lpo_1?pd_rd_i=B08D71PVXG&psc=1

https://www.newegg.com/asus-areion-10g/p/14U-005F-000T7?Description=10gbe%20nic&cm_re=10gbe_nic-_-14U-005F-000T7-_-Product&quicklink=true

If that aint small, then I dont know what is.

[quote=ho1AetooI]they don't want to spend thousands of euros and don't want to have professional network equipment with whirring fans in the living room that makes the electricity meter rotate
[/quote]

What makes you think I want to bring enterprise grade equipment in the living room? Yes gigabit will do just fine for the living room but I did not say anything about bringing this stuff into the living room.

I am not asking for dual 10gbit nics or network switches with fans in them. Just a 10gbit nic onboard and something like a 4 port or 8 port 10gbit switch. I realize now I should have mentioned this in my original post since some people probably still think of 10gbit as "enterprise".

I had expectations that when I said "home", the thought of what we have right now would come to mind but with them having 10gbit ports. poor example, R7800 but with 10gbit.

blkt wrote:
10BASE2 is all you need, and no litter box.

I actually have that in my house.

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kernel-panic69
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2021 15:26    Post subject: Reply with quote
blkt wrote:
10BASE2 is all you need, and no litter box.

or 10BASE5. Some of us remember the good ol' AUI networking hardware and all of the things that were around when everyone was shifting to 10base2 and 10baseT. Good times.

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ho1Aetoo
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2021 16:13    Post subject: Reply with quote
Gameman Advanced Kid wrote:
I find it odd you say that 10gbit cards are large. They look about the same size as a regular gigabit card to me.


Intel gigabit chips are 5x5mm and do not need cooling (TDP 0,5W)

Aquantia AQN-107 chip is 9x9mm and has an idle power consumption of ~6W - the big heatsink is not on it for fun

so the chip alone is already ~3x as big

Edit: not the chip size that no one knows (packet size)

with the required heat sink (let's assume a small 4x4cm heat sink) the required area is 64x as large

you are thinking in the wrong scales and probably assume normal computers.

i think more about embedded devices


if you assume 10W for an Aquantia 10Gbit Nic and add the rest that is in a soho router (switch and WLAN)
then you are then at some point at 50-60W

definitely way too much for a home router that runs 24h a day

Quote:
I am not asking for dual 10gbit nics or network switches with fans in them. Just a 10gbit nic onboard and something like a 4 port or 8 port 10gbit switch.


Are there already fanless 10Gbit swichtes ?
I do not think so

if there would not be some kind of a sticking point (power consumption and price)

then the manufacturers would have built such a router long ago
Gameman Advanced Kid
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2021 5:13    Post subject: Reply with quote
My fault on missing you talking about the chip itself on the board. I overlooked it thinking you were talking about the board itself.

I know the heatsinks are not for show. Most of time, if not all the time, they are there for a reason.

You think about embedded devices but I am thinking about devices that have proven themselves going past 1gbps, regardless of what they are, and replacing that gigabit nic with 10gbit nic.

To clarify what you are saying, 10gbe will run hotter and use more power than gigabit. I did make an attempt to find a 10gbe switch today but all I saw was a large box with 10gbe ports spaced apart from each other. So yes, I do see now that, unfortunately, 10gbe still has a ways to go.

I guess what I thought I saw a while ago was never really there. Closest one I could find though were mikrotiks SFP+ switches. I know their smaller 5 port and 8 port switches use passive cooling and can do 10gbps via SFP modules

Curious, what would be the difference in temperature and power between a 10gbit ethernet switch vs. an SFP+ switch? Would an 10gbe switch start to use more power and heat up as you plug in more devices?

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