Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2021 15:06 Post subject: Right to repair help dd-wrt?
After learning that right to repair was excutive ordered, (which im assumiming its going to be law soon in the states if not now), I was wondering if it would also apply to software like dd-wrt.
Specifically, you have router manufactures like netgear, linksys, eero, google nest, and a few others that either mess up their own security or functionality on their routers. custom firmwares like dd-wrt are meant to get around these sorts of issues along with keeping the life going on in dd-wrt supported routers for a little longer.
like squeezing as much juice as you can out of an orange.
so my question is, would broadcom and qualcomm and a few others be forced to make a developer kits so that the dd-wrt developers can get their firmware working on these SOHO routers?
Not sure this is applicable to software on embedded systems, but I didn't know DIY repairs were illegal; I remember when M$ went after Andrew Huang for hacking the Xbox to turn it into a Linux PC (at least I think that is who it was). I guess we'll see where this rabbit hole goes... _________________ "Life is but a fleeting moment, a vapor that vanishes quickly; All is vanity"
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Linux User #377467 counter.li.org / linuxcounter.net
Your probably trying to refer to George Hotz who installed linux on a playstation 3.
IIRC, Sony allowed PS3 owners to install Linux on their play station 3s but then Sony removed the ability to do so through an update. they said it was over a security concern but never stated what it was really about.
So this guy, George Hotz, made his own custom firmware that allowed installing linux on the PS3 again. This is probably the part where Sony sued/went after him. _________________ For people who are new to the dd-wrt forums >> http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#rtfm
barryware wrote:
It takes a "community" to raise a router..
Internet Connection 1
Some Techicolor modem > Linksys WRT3200ACM
Internet connection 2
Ubiquiti Powerbeam Gen 2 > Netgear R9000
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Joined: 08 May 2018 Posts: 14208 Location: Texas, USA
Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2021 2:27 Post subject:
There was also that. Somewhere in the boxes of stuff that has collected dust over the years, I have an article from the Seattle Times about the guy I am referring to. He had created something to replace the proprietary hardware lock on the original Xbox so you could turn it into a Linux PC, if memory serves. He's got several books out there. This was around 20 years ago, lol. _________________ "Life is but a fleeting moment, a vapor that vanishes quickly; All is vanity"
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Linux User #377467 counter.li.org / linuxcounter.net
Joined: 24 Oct 2008 Posts: 1079 Location: Latin America
Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 16:54 Post subject:
Returning to the topic, I'm not a lawyer, but my understanding is that perhaps some law can push the manufacturers to provide some spare parts and/or service manuals and/or sign NDAs with authorized service centers, but not necessarily to provide open source drivers, as that would deviate from repairing something broken. And for embedded devices perhaps it doesn't worth any effort beyond the standard warranty period.
On the other hand there is the throwaway culture: when the device is meant to be "cheap", normally the cost of servicing it's comparable to buy a new one (arguably a better one), so many people don't even care.
I still think this is a good iniciative, although probably will apply to other lines of products. _________________ If you want support, please read first the announcements and forum rules.
Si usted desea ayuda, por favor lea primero los anuncios y las reglas del foro.
But isn't the stock firmware not always perfect? I mean there are some things in there that are either broken or just annoying. Netgear is a perfect example of both AFAIK. Wireless either breaking or being problematic on hardware or software sometimes, if not most, of the time.
I was also looking into some of the RAX120 owners who have been finding out that their routers were getting bricked after flashing the OFFCIAL netgear firmware. Turns out, Netgears official firmware is just their own version of OpenWRT "Chaos Calmer".
I learned about this out while trying to restore a broken rax120 I bought off ebay.
"OH NO NO NO! We know better! We will make our OWN version of YOUR firmware for OUR router!"
And btw, netgear is not allowing access to the web gui admin page unless you download their app on your phone and create a netgear account. I believe this is specifically for their wireless AC routers. I do not think I have seen this on their wireless AX routers yet.
Joined: 08 May 2018 Posts: 14208 Location: Texas, USA
Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:56 Post subject:
I'm not going to download and unpack a gpl archive to verify, but the source code for Netgear is available online. I thought all of the XR series and RAX series were using DumaOS? Not that I looked that deep. I don't know which routers you are referring to, but I have not seen a default must-use-cell-phone-app scenario. Just like the Linksys "smart wi-fi" cloud management garbage, you can bypass that crap AFAIK. _________________ "Life is but a fleeting moment, a vapor that vanishes quickly; All is vanity"
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Linux User #377467 counter.li.org / linuxcounter.net
1. I'm not going to download and unpack a gpl archive to verify, but the source code for Netgear is available online. 2. I thought all of the XR series and RAX series were using DumaOS? Not that I looked that deep. 3. I don't know which routers you are referring to, but I have not seen a default must-use-cell-phone-app scenario. Just like the Linksys "smart wi-fi" cloud management garbage, you can bypass that crap AFAIK.
1. I really need to make an effort in doing my homework.
2. I believe they only have dumaos running on their gaming routers.
3. I wanted to take the time to mention this in case I have not already. I work as a WISP field tech installer. I install internet antennas on my customers roofs and setup their router or the companies router for them.
Anyway, I have been coming across at least some netgear routers lately for the past couple of months that have been forcing anyone using them to make a netgear account. I tried looking for the button that would allow me to skip that stuff. Sometimes its there, sometimes its not.
Based on my own observations, It seems like this is only with their wireless AC routers (R6xxx R7xxx) and not at all, if any, with their wireless AX (RAXxxx) routers.
Hopefully its not going to be standard for any of their router series at all. I mean seeing this, I would like to think of it as another reason for custom firmware to exist for these routers.
@kernel-panic69
Curious, but what kind of job/business do you do anyway? I am assuming you must do something that is related to installing these routers somewhere or for your customers? _________________ For people who are new to the dd-wrt forums >> http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#rtfm
barryware wrote:
It takes a "community" to raise a router..
Internet Connection 1
Some Techicolor modem > Linksys WRT3200ACM
Internet connection 2
Ubiquiti Powerbeam Gen 2 > Netgear R9000
Official (but not really) dd-wrt General Discussion element/matrix chat
Joined: 08 May 2018 Posts: 14208 Location: Texas, USA
Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 14:15 Post subject:
This must be with recent firmware from Netgear? I would have to think because I have hands on pretty much all brands and not everyone wants custom firmware on their routers, lol. I do a lot of setups and such for folks in the local area, yes. I just don't recall specifically a forced cell phone app scenario or at what point to kill that off the top of my head as this isn't an everyday thing, but the phone app has been around for a little bit, if I am not mistaken and I have never used it. I would rather not have folks using an app, if at all possible for obvious reasons, but that seems to be the trend - and they'll wonder why they've been hacked. Right now, I am getting ready to figure out if it's a procedural issue or if something is truly broken with the C9v4 images for DD-WRT, among other things. _________________ "Life is but a fleeting moment, a vapor that vanishes quickly; All is vanity"
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Linux User #377467 counter.li.org / linuxcounter.net
1. This must be with recent firmware from Netgear? I would have to think because I have hands on pretty much all brands and
2. not everyone wants custom firmware on their routers, lol. I do a lot of setups and such for folks in the local area, yes.
3. I just don't recall specifically a forced cell phone app scenario or at what point to kill that off the top of my head as this isn't an everyday thing, but the phone app has been around for a little bit, if I am not mistaken and I have never used it.
4. I would rather not have folks using an app, if at all possible for obvious reasons, but that seems to be the trend - and they'll wonder why they've been hacked.
5. Right now, I am getting ready to figure out if it's a procedural issue or if something is truly broken with the C9v4 images for DD-WRT, among other things.
1. I think i started seeing it mid 2020. But are you saying you havent seen what I seen at all? particularly with netgear? which specific routers do you install?
2. Oh no, I didnt mean it that way. I want to have the right to install custom firmware on whatever router I buy for myself. If people want to use stock firmware on their router, thats fine. I mean its their network not mine.
3. I probably worded what I said poorly. but its not only cellphone app, but also that they just want you to setup a netgear account in general. Either one or the two.
4. Never thought of it that way. But if say a customer was on a double nat, are they still safer than one who is on a single nat?
6. Just to clarify here, looking for vulnerabilities in dd-wrt for a specific router? are you a dd-wrt developer? _________________ For people who are new to the dd-wrt forums >> http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#rtfm
barryware wrote:
It takes a "community" to raise a router..
Internet Connection 1
Some Techicolor modem > Linksys WRT3200ACM
Internet connection 2
Ubiquiti Powerbeam Gen 2 > Netgear R9000
Official (but not really) dd-wrt General Discussion element/matrix chat
Joined: 08 May 2018 Posts: 14208 Location: Texas, USA
Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2021 1:35 Post subject:
Pick an 802.11ac model Netgear sells (I haven't had anyone buy the expensive RAX series yet). Don't use the setup wizard or genie wizard, whichever you call it; although, there used to be a point at which you could opt out of the Netgear Account thing, just like the same thing with Linksys, TP-Link, Asus, and D-Link. Firmware upgrades don't force anything that I am aware of.
The thing with the Archer C9v4 is there are two versions; and International and a US-only. The US-only doesn't seem to want to flash from the stock firmware webUI and I have one in hand now that I am going to figure out if it has to be flashed from some sort of recovery mode, serial console, or if there is something broken since the images are the size of the International version's firmware. _________________ "Life is but a fleeting moment, a vapor that vanishes quickly; All is vanity"
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Linux User #377467 counter.li.org / linuxcounter.net
Joined: 24 Oct 2008 Posts: 1079 Location: Latin America
Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2021 23:57 Post subject: Agree with blkt
Gameman Advanced Kid wrote:
Turns out, Netgears official firmware is just their own version of OpenWRT "Chaos Calmer".
I also know some Zyxels building their own version based on Openwrt. And that's OK as long as everybody respect the open source's agreements. (In fact, I downloaded, modified and built my own version of the already customized version to tweak some hidden settings, as the existing Openwrt libraries weren't enough for building an open version).
blkt wrote:
Your router is not broken and in need of repair because of shit software which technically functions.
So, if the stock firmware is not so good, or (arguably) not good at all, and/or plagued with bugs and security holes, it's up to the manufacturer, the users, the lawyers (via a class action), or ultimately the market, to gather awareness and/or momentum to improve the software. And I think they are doing it, although not in the way and extent I would personally like it. And I think that's why the third-party firmware projects still exists, for those of us who want to have more control than the typical "user-proof" wizzard-enabled configurations, and/or to have the latest scurity patches ported for no-longer supported devices. _________________ If you want support, please read first the announcements and forum rules.
Si usted desea ayuda, por favor lea primero los anuncios y las reglas del foro.
