Why does my 2.4 GHz show that it's 2x faster than my 5 GHz?

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User1
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2021 5:54    Post subject: Why does my 2.4 GHz show that it's 2x faster than my 5 GHz? Reply with quote
Hello all,

Was messing with my router that I fired up again to use and things don't look right. I have a WRT1900AC it is stock accept I added some high gain antennas. The firmware version is DD-WRT v3.0-r28628 (12/29/15).

Seems like when I first fired things up, it was showing what I thought was correct. Which was my 5 GHz network fast and the 2.4 GHz network considerably slower. Now it's;

2.4GHz 1st run - Ping 11 download 59.52 upload 5.93
5GHz 1st run - Ping 21 download 21.98 upload 5.99
2.4GHz 2nd run - Ping 39 download 59.59 upload 5.92
5GHz 2nd run - Ping 10 download 21.91 upload 5.88

WiFi Analyzer is stating I got a strong signal (meter is buried) with 2.4 GHz and weak signal with 5 GHZ network. Also I went ahead and checked what the speed would be if I got a strong signal on the 5 GHz network (10ft away). It reads as follows;

5GHz Ping 10 download 25.46 upload 5.92

So my 2.4 GHz network is more than 2x faster. Also my signed up speed is 60 Mbps download. I'm pretty much a rookie compared to some of the folks out there, but I can read and understand stuff. This seems like it's backwards, right?

Thanks for reading and I very much look forward to any and all replies.
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egc
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2021 10:28    Post subject: Reply with quote
Unfortunately you are posting in the wrong forum Sad

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If you have not already read the forum guidelines, please do !!

I will transfer this thread to the right forum.

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kernel-panic69
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2021 14:01    Post subject: Reply with quote
You wasted money on those aftermarket antennas. Especially if you did not adjust output power or other configuration items in the firmware. You should also consider upgrading to a newer firmware, but that is your choice.
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SurprisedItWorks
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2021 15:46    Post subject: Reply with quote
Can't say for sure from here, but there's a good chance that, as KP69 hints, the new antennas are the entire problem. If they are well designed for 2.4 GHz and poorly designed for 5 GHz, the 5 GHz transmit power the router pumps into the antenna could be mostly reflected by the antenna right back into the router's transmitter, where it becomes a touch of additional heat. Wouldn't be much use to you.

Also, high-gain router antennas get the extra power they radiate in the plane normal to the antenna axis by stealing it from the other directions. If you orient the antennas differently from each other, you may end up at the client device with a strong signal from only one or two of the four, hurting performance. If you make the antennas parallel to each other, pointed precisely vertically for example, you may get great performance horizontally out from the router but terrible performance if your client device is also offset vertically, say upstairs or downstairs from the router.

Basically aftermarket antennas for routers are a scam. The router maker chose the best antenna for the job already. If a higher-gain antenna made sense, they'd have used one, because it doesn't cost significantly more to manufacture.

Try your tests with the original antennas. NOT making them parallel is generally the best plan.

(My day job is in antenna research.)

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User1
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2021 15:57    Post subject: Reply with quote
kernel-panic69 wrote:
You wasted money on those aftermarket antennas. Especially if you did not adjust output power or other configuration items in the firmware. You should also consider upgrading to a newer firmware, but that is your choice.


(Sorry for posting in the wrong forum)

Thanks for the reply. I did actually bumped up the TX power to 50 dBm and left the antenna gain at 0. Doesn't seem to make that much of a difference. The antennas were actually some cheapies that I got on ebay. So not much of a lose there.
SurprisedItWorks
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2021 16:10    Post subject: Reply with quote
User1 wrote:
kernel-panic69 wrote:
You wasted money on those aftermarket antennas. Especially if you did not adjust output power or other configuration items in the firmware. You should also consider upgrading to a newer firmware, but that is your choice.


(Sorry for posting in the wrong forum)

Thanks for the reply. I did actually bumped up the TX power to 50 dBm and left the antenna gain at 0. Doesn't seem to make that much of a difference. The antennas were actually some cheapies that I got on ebay. So not much of a lose there.
My WRT1900ACSv2 routers' transmit power is not adjustable. Most likely yours is not either. You can edit the number in the Wireless settings, but take a look on the Status page at what it then shows for Tx power. In the US the legal upper limit is 30 dBm (one watt) on 2.4 GHz. The limit on the 5GHz band is the same on part of the band and 1/4 watt (23.98 or so dBm, but my router display rounds down to 23 dBm) on the rest. (Those limits may have changed... my info is a few years old.) So the Wireless transmitters are designed to be capable of 1W and likely no more. (Note that 50 dBm is 100 Watts!)

I've experimented with the setting here and have found that while I can set lower powers and see them reflected in the number on the Status page, my received signal strength elsewhere in the house does not change. So the setting is a placebo.

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User1
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2021 16:27    Post subject: Reply with quote
SurprisedItWorks wrote:
User1 wrote:
kernel-panic69 wrote:
You wasted money on those aftermarket antennas. Especially if you did not adjust output power or other configuration items in the firmware. You should also consider upgrading to a newer firmware, but that is your choice.


(Sorry for posting in the wrong forum)

Thanks for the reply. I did actually bumped up the TX power to 50 dBm and left the antenna gain at 0. Doesn't seem to make that much of a difference. The antennas were actually some cheapies that I got on ebay. So not much of a lose there.
My WRT1900ACSv2 routers' transmit power is not adjustable. Most likely yours is not either. You can edit the number in the Wireless settings, but take a look on the Status page at what it then shows for Tx power. In the US the legal upper limit is 30 dBm (one watt) on 2.4 GHz. The limit on the 5GHz band is the same on part of the band and 1/4 watt (23.98 or so dBm, but my router display rounds down to 23 dBm) on the rest. (Those limits may have changed... my info is a few years old.) So the Wireless transmitters are designed to be capable of 1W and likely no more. (Note that 50 dBm is 100 Watts!)

I've experimented with the setting here and have found that while I can set lower powers and see them reflected in the number on the Status page, my received signal strength elsewhere in the house does not change. So the setting is a placebo.


Yeah you're right. Status shows that it's 30 dBm on 2.4 network and 23 dBm on the 5 network. So the settings for power at Basic Settings is for what? If someone wanted to reduce their power?
kernel-panic69
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2021 16:27    Post subject: Reply with quote
Not sure on Marvell, but if the OEM antennas are, say, 3db gain antennas and you changed them for 9db, then that is the setting you would probably change, not the tx power. I think that was the intention of including that configuration item, anyway Cool
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User1
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2021 16:52    Post subject: Reply with quote
kernel-panic69 wrote:
Not sure on Marvell, but if the OEM antennas are, say, 3db gain antennas and you changed them for 9db, then that is the setting you would probably change, not the tx power. I think that was the intention of including that configuration item, anyway Cool


Yeah the antennas I got were 9 dBi antennas. OK so I changed the antenna gain to 9 dBI on both 2.4 and 5 networks. I checked the connection with WiFi Analyzer at another part of the house and pretty shows what was originally reported. Strong signal with the 2.4 GHz network and weak signal with the 5 GHz network. And this is not even close. The meter is buried on the 2.4 and goes to zero with the 5 network.
kernel-panic69
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2021 17:24    Post subject: Reply with quote
5Ghz band is only good for the room that the AP is in, usually. This is a given. It is not as deep-penetrating as the 2.4 band.
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WENED
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2021 17:46    Post subject: Reply with quote
kernel-panic69;

I tend to disagree with you regarding 5Ghz capability. My setup uses the 5Ghz WDS-AP as a fundamental link between my routers. One link is at 500' (1900 -> 1900). I may not get full transmission speed with the links but it is adequate for my needs and still exceeds what 2.4Ghz could produce especially since most of my remote devices don't have 5Ghz capability so I would need to use Virtual 2.4Ghz to cover the devices and link. My 3200's are linked via 5Ghz WDS-AP and are about 40' apart with a number of walls in between. The speed shown on the status page is 1700-2100 and has considerable traffic as I run all my cameras (12+) to a desktop which monitors them and from my primary desktop on the Master 3200 I remote monitor the the remote desktop .
There is some lag in the video on my primary desktop but overall the 5Ghz WDS link adequate.

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Starlink & DSL -> TPLink TL-R470T+
->
WRT3200acm Master WDS 5GHz 80Mhz CH 100 (+6) r55460
Ath1 2.4Ghz Disabled
99 Static Leases
ExpressVPN

WRT3200acm r55460 WDS Station 5Ghz
Ath1 AP N/G Mixed Channel 11 HT40

WRT1900Ac V1 5Ghz r55460 WDS Station
(Defective, no 2.4Ghz but 5Ghz works great)

WRT1900AC V1 5Ghz AC 80Mhz WDS Station r55460
2.4Ghz AP Ch1 HT20 Mixed

WRT1900ACS SPARE r54914
WRT1900AC SPARE r54914
WRT1900AC V1 5Ghz AC 80Mhz WDS-AP r55460
2.4Ghz AP Ch1 HT20 Mixed

WRT54G DD-WRT v3.0-r37305 micro AP CH 6 Mixed - Not in use

3200 Master -> LAN -> 1900ACS -> WDS 5Ghz -> 1900 V1
3200 Master -> WDS -> 3200 Slave & 1900V1
kernel-panic69
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2021 18:34    Post subject: Reply with quote
@WENED: are your links indoors, penetrating concrete, steel, wood, drywall?
They make outdoor APs with directional antennas that can be used for wireless bridges, both 5GHz and 2.4GHz.
Back in the day, the long link was 6.2 miles; this was 20 years ago. The original links were ~1 mile.

I am not going to go into a detailed history lesson about wavelan here, nor the limitations given noisy
or quiet environments. Generally speaking, 5GHz in these routers is limited to the constraints of a single
room in your house, maybe 2 rooms at most, with a decent signal and connection. I have maybe one or
two bars from the main router/AP on the other side of the house and a lot of times it will not connect
because of signal quality and constraints of the firmware. Anyhow, I will just simply agree to disagree.

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WENED
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2021 22:32    Post subject: Reply with quote
kernel-panic69;

Did not intend to dispute what you have been saying, just wanted to indicate that in some circumstances the 5Ghz does perform well.
My 3200's are in house separated by a couple of walls and a stone chimney. My 1900's have one near my master and two outboard, one at the barn (500' away) and the other in a canvas carport (100' away).
I fully agree with you regarding the 5Ghz performance where devices(phones, laptops etc.) are concerned. I have found with laptops that unless I am within 10' or so of a router I am better off using the 2.4Ghz.
Since this original post began with comments regarding antenna's I shall clarify.
In my operation the 5Ghz performs well mostly due to it being used router -> router where both devices have good antennae. My experiences in a past lifetime working with old school electronics and communications has taught me that no amount of power can replace properly tuned antennas. I have experimented with yagi's on the routers but found (calculated) that due to high frequency any gains accomplished by these antenna is negated by the coax loss connecting them.
In conclusion I can only say that, yes you are correct when dealing with devices with simple wire antenna not being able to use the 5Ghz effectively.
Case in point is the 5G networks. If you are not close to an antenna, the frequency is so high that any high speed you might expect will not occur.
I am rural and use a DSL line for internet (7 down 0.4 up) so speed is not something I have and there is no way I would ever see a problem with my 5Ghz not being able to keep up with my WLAN. All my comments regarding effectiveness of the 5Ghz are based on my usage of local IP cameras and Sonoff (esp8266) devices which perform well in my application.
So, please accept my apologies if I had ruffled your feathers in any way.

_________________
Starlink & DSL -> TPLink TL-R470T+
->
WRT3200acm Master WDS 5GHz 80Mhz CH 100 (+6) r55460
Ath1 2.4Ghz Disabled
99 Static Leases
ExpressVPN

WRT3200acm r55460 WDS Station 5Ghz
Ath1 AP N/G Mixed Channel 11 HT40

WRT1900Ac V1 5Ghz r55460 WDS Station
(Defective, no 2.4Ghz but 5Ghz works great)

WRT1900AC V1 5Ghz AC 80Mhz WDS Station r55460
2.4Ghz AP Ch1 HT20 Mixed

WRT1900ACS SPARE r54914
WRT1900AC SPARE r54914
WRT1900AC V1 5Ghz AC 80Mhz WDS-AP r55460
2.4Ghz AP Ch1 HT20 Mixed

WRT54G DD-WRT v3.0-r37305 micro AP CH 6 Mixed - Not in use

3200 Master -> LAN -> 1900ACS -> WDS 5Ghz -> 1900 V1
3200 Master -> WDS -> 3200 Slave & 1900V1
kernel-panic69
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2021 22:59    Post subject: Reply with quote
No ruffled feathers here. My initial commentary on 5GHz was in reference to the OP, nothing more. Your use-case scenario may not be relevant to the OP's situation; but at the same time can be, if that makes any sense. No worries.
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WENED
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2021 23:16    Post subject: Reply with quote
So here's a thought.

If one was to use a USB 5Ghz module with an antenna from a wrt router or similar, how would the performance be?

I would test this theory if I had a USB adaptor, which I do but does not have an external antenna.

Sorry to keep this going on but my old school theory keeps telling me the antennae are the problem. My WRT's perform well but then again there are tuned antennae on both ends.
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