Dual-Band WDS

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Laithan
DD-WRT User


Joined: 01 Sep 2018
Posts: 106

PostPosted: Sun Mar 07, 2021 1:47    Post subject: Dual-Band WDS Reply with quote
R9000/R7800
DD-WRT v3.0-r44715/19 std (11/03/20)

I currently have 2.4Ghz WDS network configured and working properly. I picked up an NVIDIA Shield Pro and it connects just fine to the 2.4Ghz network (WDS Station as it is far away from the WDS AP) with an excellent signal but I'm constantly hounded by the shield that I should be using the 5Ghz band and being told I don't have enough bandwidth. The problem is, I have a couple devices that can only use 2.4Ghz so I don't want to get rid of the 2.4Ghz WDS config. I would like to set up a 5Ghz WDS link in addition to the 2.4Ghz WDS link.

The WDS Wiki says "Only use a WDS bridge on one radio's (2.4GHz or 5GHz) Wireless Mode, as bridging more may cause wireless issues."

Is this still the case? I am wondering if the Wiki might be old and if I could have Dual-Band WDS between the R9000 and R7800 without issue. What kind of wireless issues are we talking here anyway?

Thank you in advance
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ian5142
DD-WRT Guru


Joined: 23 Oct 2013
Posts: 2318
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Sun Mar 07, 2021 2:03    Post subject: WDS Station & AP Reply with quote
You can use WDS Station mode on 2.4GHz or 5GHz. Then use the other one on AP mode.

Note, 5GHz has less range then 2.4GHz. I am required to use 2.4GHz as my bridge for my setup (distances are too great). Then each capable router generates its own 5GHz network with the same SSID and password but different non-overlapping channels. All in AP mode.

If you need more help with the setup. Just reply to this thread.

_________________
Before asking a question on the forums, update dd-wrt: Where do I download firmware? I suggest reading it all.
QCA Best WiFi Settings


Some dd-wrt wiki pages are up to date, others are not. PM me if you find an old one.

Atheros:
Netgear R7800 x3 - WDS AP / station, gateway, QoS
TP-Link Archer C7 v2 x2 - WDS Station
TP-Link TL-WDR3600 v1 - WDS Station
TP-Link 841nd v8 - NU
D-Link 615 C1/E3/I1 x 7 - 1 WDS station
D-Link 825 B1 - NU
D-Link 862L A1 x2 - WDS Station
Netgear WNDR3700v2 - NU
UBNT loco M2 x2 - airOS

Broadcom
Linksys EA6400 - Gateway, QoS
Asus N66U - AP
Netgear WNDR3700v3 - not used
MediaTek
UBNT EdgeRouter X - switch
Laithan
DD-WRT User


Joined: 01 Sep 2018
Posts: 106

PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2021 2:16    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thanks, I will try that. So the 2.4Ghz AP connections will just use the 5Ghz WDS link, gotcha.
ian5142
DD-WRT Guru


Joined: 23 Oct 2013
Posts: 2318
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2021 3:55    Post subject: Or the reverse Reply with quote
Or the reverse in my case because of distance.

The 2.4GHz AP gets its network (Internet) access from the 5GHz WDS Link, if that is what you are getting at.

_________________
Before asking a question on the forums, update dd-wrt: Where do I download firmware? I suggest reading it all.
QCA Best WiFi Settings


Some dd-wrt wiki pages are up to date, others are not. PM me if you find an old one.

Atheros:
Netgear R7800 x3 - WDS AP / station, gateway, QoS
TP-Link Archer C7 v2 x2 - WDS Station
TP-Link TL-WDR3600 v1 - WDS Station
TP-Link 841nd v8 - NU
D-Link 615 C1/E3/I1 x 7 - 1 WDS station
D-Link 825 B1 - NU
D-Link 862L A1 x2 - WDS Station
Netgear WNDR3700v2 - NU
UBNT loco M2 x2 - airOS

Broadcom
Linksys EA6400 - Gateway, QoS
Asus N66U - AP
Netgear WNDR3700v3 - not used
MediaTek
UBNT EdgeRouter X - switch
Laithan
DD-WRT User


Joined: 01 Sep 2018
Posts: 106

PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 22:40    Post subject: Reply with quote
Just an update to this, sorry it has taken me so long. I did as you suggested and left the 2.4Ghz WDS network alone and just added a 5Ghz AP on the R7800. Surprisingly, my TV (has Roku integrated) will now play 4K HDR movies over Plex without buffering...flawlessly...which is interesting because the source of the streaming is still coming through the 2.4Ghz WDS network. I guess the connection between routers must have been faster than the connection from my TV to the 2.4Ghz AP. So anyways, a win there. Smile

Getting back to what started this whole thing, the NVIDIA Shield is now also connected to the 5GHZ AP.. and initially it seemed to like that connection better also.. but when I try to stream a game it performed a bandwidth/latency test and it tells me that my connection is not good enough (although it works fine over a LAN connection in a different part of the house) so I seem to be limited by the 2.4Ghz WDS network after all.

So I wanted to ask, would it be a complete waste of time to try and create a 2nd WDS network using 5Ghz running parallel to the 2.4Ghz WDS network on the same routers? What are the "network issues" mentioned in the Wiki? Are they actually more on the CPU side or something else more complicated? The 2 routers are a R9000 and a R7800.
blkt
DD-WRT Guru


Joined: 20 Jan 2019
Posts: 5660

PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2021 7:43    Post subject: Reply with quote
Well, you know what the wiki says so if you want to experiment that is up to you.
ian5142
DD-WRT Guru


Joined: 23 Oct 2013
Posts: 2318
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 12:50    Post subject: Dual-band WDS Reply with quote
The main reason why Dual-band WDS does not work is because the router doesn't know where the traffic should go, there is no prioritizing. It gets confused if you will.

At least that is my understanding.

If you need higher bandwidth, use WDS on the 5GHz network, but make sure the routers are fairly close together, or the connection will be a lot weaker then the 2.4GHz WDS was. Then create a AP on the 2.4GHz side.

Don't ever expect wired speeds via WDS, it is just not going to happen.

_________________
Before asking a question on the forums, update dd-wrt: Where do I download firmware? I suggest reading it all.
QCA Best WiFi Settings


Some dd-wrt wiki pages are up to date, others are not. PM me if you find an old one.

Atheros:
Netgear R7800 x3 - WDS AP / station, gateway, QoS
TP-Link Archer C7 v2 x2 - WDS Station
TP-Link TL-WDR3600 v1 - WDS Station
TP-Link 841nd v8 - NU
D-Link 615 C1/E3/I1 x 7 - 1 WDS station
D-Link 825 B1 - NU
D-Link 862L A1 x2 - WDS Station
Netgear WNDR3700v2 - NU
UBNT loco M2 x2 - airOS

Broadcom
Linksys EA6400 - Gateway, QoS
Asus N66U - AP
Netgear WNDR3700v3 - not used
MediaTek
UBNT EdgeRouter X - switch
egc
DD-WRT Guru


Joined: 18 Mar 2014
Posts: 12837
Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 14:14    Post subject: Reply with quote
Pull a cable or use power line adapters?
_________________
Routers:Netgear R7000, R6400v1, R6400v2, EA6900 (XvortexCFE), E2000, E1200v1, WRT54GS v1.
Install guide R6400v2, R6700v3,XR300:https://forum.dd-wrt.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=316399
Install guide R7800/XR500: https://forum.dd-wrt.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=320614
Forum Guide Lines (important read):https://forum.dd-wrt.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=324087
Laithan
DD-WRT User


Joined: 01 Sep 2018
Posts: 106

PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 20:22    Post subject: Re: Dual-band WDS Reply with quote
ian5142 wrote:
The main reason why Dual-band WDS does not work is because the router doesn't know where the traffic should go, there is no prioritizing. It gets confused if you will.

At least that is my understanding.

If you need higher bandwidth, use WDS on the 5GHz network, but make sure the routers are fairly close together, or the connection will be a lot weaker then the 2.4GHz WDS was. Then create a AP on the 2.4GHz side.



Thanks, this is what I was looking for, just wanted to understand why it wasn't a good idea. I won't bother trying the Dual band WDS then. I will have to see if I can get away with the 5Ghz WDS by itself.. maybe I'll have to put a 3rd WDS Station to keep the signal strong... I do have a spare TP-LINK router that might help keep the signal strong enough.

I'd love to pull a cable but it is a very long and difficult run with exterior walls. I have never used a power line adapter.. assumed they were trash.. maybe not?

I appreciate the input. Will see how the 5Ghz goes Smile
ian5142
DD-WRT Guru


Joined: 23 Oct 2013
Posts: 2318
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2021 0:30    Post subject: WDS and AP Reply with quote
OK. There are only 2 physical wifi networking cards in each router you have. The more tasks you give each card the less time it can spend on any one task.

For example. If you have WDS on 2.4GHz then connect all of your devices using the 5GHz (AP-Mode). This way each card is only doing one thing.

The wrong or less efficient way of doing it (PS: I have to do it this way): WDS on 2.4GHz, Virtual AP on 2.4GHz, AP-mode on 5GHz. My 2.4GHz card is now sharing its time between communicating with the device and the backhaul to the main router. But my 5GHz devices connect to the secondary router directly.

The example above can easily be changed from 2.4GHz to 5GHz, just change the numbers in the paragraph.

Now, 5GHz will always transmit less distance then 2.4GHz. The higher the frequency the more power required to radiate the same distance. It is just physics. That is why in my case, WDS is only possible on the 2.4GHz network. My throughput, if I used 5GHz for WDS, would be nearly zero due to the weak signal. Or, I would have to put a router every ~50-70 ft, not possible in my location.

_________________
Before asking a question on the forums, update dd-wrt: Where do I download firmware? I suggest reading it all.
QCA Best WiFi Settings


Some dd-wrt wiki pages are up to date, others are not. PM me if you find an old one.

Atheros:
Netgear R7800 x3 - WDS AP / station, gateway, QoS
TP-Link Archer C7 v2 x2 - WDS Station
TP-Link TL-WDR3600 v1 - WDS Station
TP-Link 841nd v8 - NU
D-Link 615 C1/E3/I1 x 7 - 1 WDS station
D-Link 825 B1 - NU
D-Link 862L A1 x2 - WDS Station
Netgear WNDR3700v2 - NU
UBNT loco M2 x2 - airOS

Broadcom
Linksys EA6400 - Gateway, QoS
Asus N66U - AP
Netgear WNDR3700v3 - not used
MediaTek
UBNT EdgeRouter X - switch
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