R7800 speed and connection issue

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msoengineer
DD-WRT Guru


Joined: 21 Jan 2017
Posts: 559
Location: Illinois

PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 12:03    Post subject: Reply with quote
Turn on qam 256 and single user beamforming (su-mimo).

Looking at your list of clients, it would appear that only the 1+5 & p20 have a 2x2 wifi radio in it...all other devices are 1x1 legacy devices only capable of doing HT20@ 72mbps which will max out around 50-60mbps...

Your clients have old wifi technology.

Look at their connection rates and compare them against www.mcsindex.com and you will understand more. 1x1 wifi radios are killing you.

_________________
[r9000]BS 41328 (Main Router)
[EA8500]Kong 40270M (Offsite)
[R7800]taking a nap
[WDR3600]BS 36808 (Offsite)


TIPS/TRICKS:

Best QCA Wifi settings to use|Latency tricks|QoS Port priority||NEVER USE MU-MIO

Why to NOT use MU-MIMO||Max Wifi Pwr by Country||MCS Index Speeds||Correct QCA 5Ghz chnls to use||WIFI Chnl Freq WIKI
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Prelude
DD-WRT Novice


Joined: 13 Jun 2019
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 16:55    Post subject: Reply with quote
msoengineer wrote:
Turn on qam 256 and single user beamforming (su-mimo).

Looking at your list of clients, it would appear that only the 1+5 & p20 have a 2x2 wifi radio in it...all other devices are 1x1 legacy devices only capable of doing HT20@ 72mbps which will max out around 50-60mbps...

Your clients have old wifi technology.

Look at their connection rates and compare them against www.mcsindex.com and you will understand more. 1x1 wifi radios are killing you.


ok i made the 2 setting changes but this of course hasn't fixed the issue.

im a little confused with the connection rates thing. most of the stuff i have connected to the 2.4 ghz stuff is some cams, smart home plugs and switches, chrome casts, 2 older laptops, google home mini, and 2 echo dots.

sorry for being a noob but i don't understand how these items would be killing my wifi speeds. my wifi speed. it also sounds like you are saying i might be screwed with the performance of my network because of the devices i have connected to the router.

honestly when i had the facotry setting before i did some of the firmware upgrades the router was fine but since i upgraded the firmware with the netgear updates i started having my router reset randomly, then i switched to voxel firmware and it improved but not a whole lot now on dd-wrt, i am have other issues. i know this router is good cause most of the internet can't be wrong but i can't seem to figure out what i am doing wrong. it been pretty frustrating to say the least but i do appreciate the help. the support from this community has been great.
msoengineer
DD-WRT Guru


Joined: 21 Jan 2017
Posts: 559
Location: Illinois

PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 17:28    Post subject: Reply with quote
MCS is a theoretical maximum throughput of the wifi.
Part of is is based on the network mode: a/b/g/n/ac/ax.
The R7800 is a wave 2 AC router capable of 4x4:4. It has 4 streams. So when you look at the table at www.mcsindex.com you can see what the maximum possible mbps rate is for the router. That said, that is THEORY, not reality. Reality takes into account distance, noise, surrounding neighbors, etc.

Based on the client list you posted; a lot of the clients are connecting at a 1x1:1 stream. This means they have some rather craptastic throughput speeds. Your MBP, 1+5, and P20 seem to have a 2x2:2 stream wifi card in them. This means they can get faster theoretical speeds, but again...reality sinks in. Your speed tests are consistent with what reality is.

The R7800 using Voxel is likely using older "stable" drivers- I don't know this for sure, but it's a hunch. Netgear stock is most surely using old drivers. DD-WRT uses "bleeding edge" drivers usually and that can cause issues. BS builds almost always have the most recent drivers applied because BS is tight with someone at QCA and gets driver code. What that means is sometimes issues are baked into his latest builds, not on purpose, and he keeps track of the forums to see if anyone actually supplies useful data about these new driver commits. From time to time he will revert driver builds, but my hunch is that he can talk with QCA and have them make tweaks.

That said, Kong has the ability to make builds and test them across his fleet to get real time data on how things perform. He tends to stick to solid drivers that yield the best results; though, he doesn't tweak driver code like BS does. It's for this reason why so many people follow kong and whatever hardware he builds for; he uses empirical results to make his builds rock solid. Plus he's more flexible at reverting things when we report gremlins. The R7800 is the "golden" child for both Kong and BS; it's why it's the most talked about on the Atheros forums.

For the R7800 you should stick to Kong builds. You may want to try his non-test build from October 2018 which was the most stable and "fastest" performing build before the switch to the new Linux 4.9 kernel. K4.9 uncovered latency gremlins that Kong has mostly ironed out, but they still exist. K3.18 didn't seem to have nearly all the latency issues. BS doesn't have Gig speed so he doesn't perceive the latency issues as something that needs to be fixed. He's never come out about why/why not. I assume if he knew the exact reason why, he would fix it.

All that said, if you're still having issues, you may have gremlins lingering around in the NVRAM causing weirdness. It's always best to do a factory reset when installing new builds, but that is a P.I.T.A. and most of us don't do it unless the gremlins multiply...

It appears a lot of the devices you have are older/cheaper client chipsets and they may be broadcom based. Broadcom and Atheros/QCA simply don't play nice with one another. Apple uses nearly all broadcom chips...so their stuff works like shit on the R7800. This is why you need to read and follow recommendations like turning on RTS/CTS and setting the RTS threshold to the suggested values. This helps reduce collisions caused by shit client drivers. Otherwise, you've pretty much maxed out the possible performance out of the R7800. The next step would be to install all patches/updates/latest drivers to your client devices you can. This is a huge challenge because most mfg's suck at updates. Apple blows at trying to fix things. It's one reason why I stay away from them. They are all show and make pure shit these days; PROFIT is king...

_________________
[r9000]BS 41328 (Main Router)
[EA8500]Kong 40270M (Offsite)
[R7800]taking a nap
[WDR3600]BS 36808 (Offsite)


TIPS/TRICKS:

Best QCA Wifi settings to use|Latency tricks|QoS Port priority||NEVER USE MU-MIO

Why to NOT use MU-MIMO||Max Wifi Pwr by Country||MCS Index Speeds||Correct QCA 5Ghz chnls to use||WIFI Chnl Freq WIKI
Prelude
DD-WRT Novice


Joined: 13 Jun 2019
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 19:04    Post subject: Reply with quote
msoengineer wrote:
MCS is a theoretical maximum throughput of the wifi.
Part of is is based on the network mode: a/b/g/n/ac/ax.
The R7800 is a wave 2 AC router capable of 4x4:4. It has 4 streams. So when you look at the table at www.mcsindex.com you can see what the maximum possible mbps rate is for the router. That said, that is THEORY, not reality. Reality takes into account distance, noise, surrounding neighbors, etc.

Based on the client list you posted; a lot of the clients are connecting at a 1x1:1 stream. This means they have some rather craptastic throughput speeds. Your MBP, 1+5, and P20 seem to have a 2x2:2 stream wifi card in them. This means they can get faster theoretical speeds, but again...reality sinks in. Your speed tests are consistent with what reality is.

The R7800 using Voxel is likely using older "stable" drivers- I don't know this for sure, but it's a hunch. Netgear stock is most surely using old drivers. DD-WRT uses "bleeding edge" drivers usually and that can cause issues. BS builds almost always have the most recent drivers applied because BS is tight with someone at QCA and gets driver code. What that means is sometimes issues are baked into his latest builds, not on purpose, and he keeps track of the forums to see if anyone actually supplies useful data about these new driver commits. From time to time he will revert driver builds, but my hunch is that he can talk with QCA and have them make tweaks.

That said, Kong has the ability to make builds and test them across his fleet to get real time data on how things perform. He tends to stick to solid drivers that yield the best results; though, he doesn't tweak driver code like BS does. It's for this reason why so many people follow kong and whatever hardware he builds for; he uses empirical results to make his builds rock solid. Plus he's more flexible at reverting things when we report gremlins. The R7800 is the "golden" child for both Kong and BS; it's why it's the most talked about on the Atheros forums.

For the R7800 you should stick to Kong builds. You may want to try his non-test build from October 2018 which was the most stable and "fastest" performing build before the switch to the new Linux 4.9 kernel. K4.9 uncovered latency gremlins that Kong has mostly ironed out, but they still exist. K3.18 didn't seem to have nearly all the latency issues. BS doesn't have Gig speed so he doesn't perceive the latency issues as something that needs to be fixed. He's never come out about why/why not. I assume if he knew the exact reason why, he would fix it.

All that said, if you're still having issues, you may have gremlins lingering around in the NVRAM causing weirdness. It's always best to do a factory reset when installing new builds, but that is a P.I.T.A. and most of us don't do it unless the gremlins multiply...

It appears a lot of the devices you have are older/cheaper client chipsets and they may be broadcom based. Broadcom and Atheros/QCA simply don't play nice with one another. Apple uses nearly all broadcom chips...so their stuff works like shit on the R7800. This is why you need to read and follow recommendations like turning on RTS/CTS and setting the RTS threshold to the suggested values. This helps reduce collisions caused by shit client drivers. Otherwise, you've pretty much maxed out the possible performance out of the R7800. The next step would be to install all patches/updates/latest drivers to your client devices you can. This is a huge challenge because most mfg's suck at updates. Apple blows at trying to fix things. It's one reason why I stay away from them. They are all show and make pure shit these days; PROFIT is king...


thanks msoengineer for your thorough response. i really appreciate you explanation. Using dd-wrt has been a great learning experience.
i will try a factor reset and see how it goes. if that doesn't work i will try a revert back to the Kong build in October of last year. i will update this threat with my results.
msoengineer
DD-WRT Guru


Joined: 21 Jan 2017
Posts: 559
Location: Illinois

PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 19:07    Post subject: Reply with quote
Prelude wrote:
i will try a factor reset and see how it goes. if that doesn't work i will try a revert back to the Kong build in October of last year. i will update this threat with my results.


If you roll back, make sure to reset back to defaults.

_________________
[r9000]BS 41328 (Main Router)
[EA8500]Kong 40270M (Offsite)
[R7800]taking a nap
[WDR3600]BS 36808 (Offsite)


TIPS/TRICKS:

Best QCA Wifi settings to use|Latency tricks|QoS Port priority||NEVER USE MU-MIO

Why to NOT use MU-MIMO||Max Wifi Pwr by Country||MCS Index Speeds||Correct QCA 5Ghz chnls to use||WIFI Chnl Freq WIKI
Prelude
DD-WRT Novice


Joined: 13 Jun 2019
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 4:24    Post subject: Reply with quote
msoengineer wrote:
Prelude wrote:
i will try a factor reset and see how it goes. if that doesn't work i will try a revert back to the Kong build in October of last year. i will update this threat with my results.


If you roll back, make sure to reset back to defaults.


can i just load the older bin and do a factory reset ? or should i revert back to stock first then go to kong October release?

also is the is the factory reset in dd-wrt interface the same as push the button on the back of the router?

thanks,
msoengineer
DD-WRT Guru


Joined: 21 Jan 2017
Posts: 559
Location: Illinois

PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 11:53    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yes you can simply load the older version from the newer version. The reason I said to select the revert to defaults is to clear the nvram because sometime mappings change and will cause really weird things to happen.

From what I seem to recall. The GUI reset is a "permanent" reset, meaning that after several minutes of no user action the settings are still cleared. As a precaution of accidental poking of the reset button, if you don't touch the GUI of the router for several minutes after button reset your old settings will restore.

_________________
[r9000]BS 41328 (Main Router)
[EA8500]Kong 40270M (Offsite)
[R7800]taking a nap
[WDR3600]BS 36808 (Offsite)


TIPS/TRICKS:

Best QCA Wifi settings to use|Latency tricks|QoS Port priority||NEVER USE MU-MIO

Why to NOT use MU-MIMO||Max Wifi Pwr by Country||MCS Index Speeds||Correct QCA 5Ghz chnls to use||WIFI Chnl Freq WIKI


Last edited by msoengineer on Mon Jun 24, 2019 13:46; edited 1 time in total
Prelude
DD-WRT Novice


Joined: 13 Jun 2019
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 5:03    Post subject: Reply with quote
I loaded the October Kong build then moved a couple of clients on to 5ghz, such as the 2 Chromecasts and my 2 echo dots and google mini. I think the October build is a bit more consistent for me. My 2.4ghz speed is still about 60mbps but it is ok cause it is just some smart home devices on it now.

I notice my 5ghz signal is a little week like I can3 connect at the back of my house or the strength is weak. is there anything settings I can adjust to get more range?

Thanks everyone for their help!
Alozaros
DD-WRT Guru


Joined: 16 Nov 2015
Posts: 2915
Location: UK, London, just across the river..

PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 13:31    Post subject: Reply with quote
nope 5GHz has a weak range anyway, if you already selected country domain Canada or Hiti, this maxes
TX rate, the other tweak is to select more powerful Channel, but it wont do a miracles at all..
Interesting if i know nothing, i always try to read and learn from ggl and manuals and ect. as asking in the forums without basic knowledge not always yields those positive results...but confusion instead...!!

Anyway in his post msoengineer was kind of very consistent......
From my personal experience with R7800 with those settings i shared above, its a rock solid, it's an edge router serving various clients Wi-Fi & LAN has't been nasty to us at all !!
So very likely its either its up to your bad clients, not able to utilize those speeds, bad settings or bad ISP speed delivered, finally check you cables, there was an case, where a bloke was doing its best but ended with bad LAN cable, where twisted pair was limiting the speed to 40-50Mbit...
As well there could be a case where a bad client is spamming the network with UDP or TCP flood and then the bandwidth gets corrupted, but this needs an advanced knowledge...or more hardware...

_________________
Atheros
TP-Link WR740Nv1 ------DD-WRT 33772 BS WAP/Switch (wired)
TP-Link WR1043NDv2 ----DD-WRT 41375 BS (AP,PPPoE,NAT,AD Blocking,AP Isolation,Firewall,Local DNS,Forced DNS,DoT)
TP-Link WR1043NDv2 ----DD-WRT 41321 BS (AP,NAT,AD Blocking,Firewall,Wi-Fi OFF,Local DNS,Forced DNS,DoT)
TP-Link WR1043NDv2 ----Gargoyle OS 1.11.0 (AP,NAT,QoS,Quotas)
Qualcomm/IPQ8065
2x Netgear R7800 -------DD-WRT 40270M 4.9 Kong (AP,NAT,AD-Blocking,AP&Net Isolation,VLAN's,Firewall,Local DNS,DNSCrypt-proxy v2 x2)
Broadcom
Netgear R7000 -------DD-WRT 40270M Kong (AP,NAT,VLAN,AD-Blocking,Firewall,Local DNS,Forced DNS,DoT)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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