WDS - connection not stable

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fn0rd
DD-WRT Novice


Joined: 16 Oct 2011
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 20:24    Post subject: WDS - connection not stable Reply with quote
Hello,
after implementing the recommendations from my last post about the issue, I still have stability problems and I am not sure how to debug them, as the syslog does not contain anything meaningful.


What I already tried with any success:
1. Upgrade to two Archer C7
2. Several different firmware versions
3. Different Wifi channel (even if no other wifi is in sight)
4. Remove repeater temporary
5. Setup papertrail syslogd, to have the log after a reboot

Would be super thankful for any kind of ideas.


Setup:

1. AP1 - (WAN = Internet route)
2. Repeater to extend Wifi of AP1
3. AP2 to extend Wifi of AP1

Do you see anything in my configuration which I could change/improve in this?

Thanks in advance



AP1 (yellow):
TP-Link ARCHER-C7 v2 (Firmware: DD-WRT v3.0-r39538 std (04/16/19) )
Wifi 192.168.2.1 - WAN dhcp

Configuration:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/vqepky7vdndixjr/Screenshot%202019-04-19%2022.07.42.png?raw=1
https://www.dropbox.com/s/juwghwtmu4zdgpd/Screenshot%202019-04-19%2022.08.04.png?raw=1
https://www.dropbox.com/s/q5sntbe93nqj9f4/Screenshot%202019-04-19%2022.08.11.png?raw=1
https://www.dropbox.com/s/oxheopqx09w96bl/Screenshot%202019-04-19%2022.08.35.png?raw=1
https://www.dropbox.com/s/fqxt1xj2iq4gjy3/Screenshot%202019-04-19%2022.08.46.png?raw=1
https://www.dropbox.com/s/5xno9hjxvo77bq0/Screenshot%202019-04-19%2022.15.34.png?raw=1

AP2 (blue):
TP-Link ARCHER-C7 v2 (Firmware: DD-WRT v3.0-r39538 std (04/16/19) )
Wifi 192.168.2.2

Configuration:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jfex0u4zc8l47bf/Screenshot%202019-04-19%2022.09.58.png?raw=1
https://www.dropbox.com/s/0uy5vg2lacrvk66/Screenshot%202019-04-19%2022.10.09.png?raw=1
https://www.dropbox.com/s/7q3l48ookbha7ka/Screenshot%202019-04-19%2022.10.34.png?raw=1
https://www.dropbox.com/s/x9zw6xoldloz7t8/Screenshot%202019-04-19%2022.10.49.png?raw=1
https://www.dropbox.com/s/hggtpofi5tocv9p/Screenshot%202019-04-19%2022.11.03.png?raw=1
https://www.dropbox.com/s/2p7y4g4hu8z54gc/Screenshot%202019-04-19%2022.11.33.png?raw=1
https://www.dropbox.com/s/3gjs5yizuh5kd4w/Screenshot%202019-04-19%2022.11.51.png?raw=1
https://www.dropbox.com/s/wud1dn3sdm4iy2z/Screenshot%202019-04-19%2022.12.00.png?raw=1

Repeater:
TP-Link RE450 (Firmware: Stock RE450(US)_V2_171220)
Wifi dhcp


Configuration:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/phcj21qggsrbojc/Screenshot%202019-04-19%2022.19.44.png?raw=1
https://www.dropbox.com/s/564jtdap763oczl/Screenshot%202019-04-19%2022.19.55.png?raw=1
https://www.dropbox.com/s/l9d21yicl1us74r/Screenshot%202019-04-19%2022.20.11.png?raw=1
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fn0rd
DD-WRT Novice


Joined: 16 Oct 2011
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:34    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thanks eibgrad for your answer(s).

I still have hope, that someone could give me some hints where I can look at in addition. I would also like to see exactly what the problem is (e.g. the key rotation).

Ubiquiti would be the "throw money to it, to solve the problem"-solution. But they are quite pricey and this would violate my honor as a Master in CS . Sad Laughing
Per Yngve Berg
DD-WRT Guru


Joined: 13 Aug 2013
Posts: 5849
Location: Romerike, Norway

PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 18:09    Post subject: Reply with quote
Don't you use both bands (2.4 and 5Ghz)?

A repeater of the repeater will reduce the bandwidth to a 1/4.

Use one band a AP and the other as uplink.
ian5142
DD-WRT Guru


Joined: 23 Oct 2013
Posts: 2156
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 18:33    Post subject: WDS Reply with quote
I use WDS between two Archer C7 v2. Both are currently running 39494, about to be upgraded to 39572. I used this wiki, Atheros section: https://wiki.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/WDS_Linked_router_network

With the recommended wifi settings from here: https://wiki.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Atheros/ath_wireless_settings

I have a very stable connection between my routers. In the summer I run a bunch of routers all set up in WDS. Usually uptime is greater than a week. Then a new dd-wrt build comes out and I upgrade.

PS: I did just notice an error. You selected WPA, not WPA2 on the WDS Station. That would cause it to drop out. Also, HT40 and WMM are required for Wireless-N speeds. SFE - Shortcut Forwarding Engine, personally I disable it.

_________________
Before asking a question on the forums, update dd-wrt: Where do I download firmware? I suggest reading it all.

Some dd-wrt wiki pages are up to date, others are not. PM me if you find an old one, I am trying to update them.

Atheros:
Netgear R7800 - gateway, DHCP, QoS, VPN
TP-Link Archer C7 v2 x2 - WDS AP, WDS Station
TP-Link TL-WDR3600 v1 - WDS Station
TP-Link 841nd v8 - WDS Station
D-Link 615 C1 x 4 - not used
D-Link 615 E3 x 2 - not used
D-Link 825 B1 - WDS Station
D-Link 862L A1 x2 - WDS Station
Netgear WNDR3700v2 - WDS Station
UBNT loco M2 x2 - airOS

Broadcom
Asus N66U - backup Gateway
Netgear r6300 v1 - AP
Linksys E2500 - not used
Linksys EA2700 - not used
Linksys 160N v3 x2 - not used
Netgear WNDR3700v3 - not used
MediaTek
UBNT EdgeRouter X - not used
fn0rd
DD-WRT Novice


Joined: 16 Oct 2011
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 15:15    Post subject: Reply with quote
Per Yngve Berg wrote:
Don't you use both bands (2.4 and 5Ghz)?
...

Use one band a AP and the other as uplink.


Good idea, did not try this yet.

I switched to 5GHz for the WDS and will see how stable this is.

Here is currently the Setup with 2.4GHz:


Compared to the 5 GHz:


Per Yngve Berg wrote:

A repeater of the repeater will reduce the bandwidth to a 1/4.


AP1 + Repeater = 1/2 bandwith
But not cutting it again /2 while using wds, as I would assume the repeater is only relaying the first AP.

But even 1/4 bandwidth would be fine. I would only require 15M but stable.[/img]
htismaqe
DD-WRT User


Joined: 05 Nov 2015
Posts: 471

PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 15:37    Post subject: Reply with quote
fn0rd wrote:
Per Yngve Berg wrote:
Don't you use both bands (2.4 and 5Ghz)?
...

Use one band a AP and the other as uplink.


Good idea, did not try this yet.

I switched to 5GHz for the WDS and will see how stable this is.

Here is currently the Setup with 2.4GHz:


Compared to the 5 GHz:


Per Yngve Berg wrote:

A repeater of the repeater will reduce the bandwidth to a 1/4.


AP1 + Repeater = 1/2 bandwith
But not cutting it again /2 while using wds, as I would assume the repeater is only relaying the first AP.

But even 1/4 bandwidth would be fine. I would only require 15M but stable.[/img]


You're not going to get 15Mbps using 2.4Ghz.

_________________
Routing:.......Asus RT-AX88U (Asuswrt-Merlin 384.14)
Switching:....Netgear GS608_V3 & GS605_V4, TrendNet TEG-S82G & TEG-S50G
fn0rd
DD-WRT Novice


Joined: 16 Oct 2011
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 15:44    Post subject: Re: WDS Reply with quote
ian5142 wrote:

PS: I did just notice an error. You selected WPA, not WPA2 on the WDS Station. That would cause it to drop out. Also, HT40 and WMM are required for Wireless-N speeds. SFE - Shortcut Forwarding Engine, personally I disable it.

Thanks, adjusted it accordingly and will let you know if it is more stable now.
jwh7
DD-WRT Guru


Joined: 25 Oct 2013
Posts: 2613
Location: Indy

PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 15:25    Post subject: Reply with quote
eibgrad wrote:
P.S. Just noticed the references to WDS in the most recent build's release notes.

https://forum.dd-wrt.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=319504

Notice WDS isn't even supported w/ ARM processors.
That only affects Broadcom ARM due to the (proprietary) driver. I updated the bcm release notes to clarify. Smile
_________________
# NAT/SFE/CTF: limited speed w/ DD # Repeater issues # DD-WRT info: FAQ, Builds, Types, Modes, Changes, Demo #
x64 OPNsense 20.7.4|FT2020.6: EA6900v1.1@1GHz, F7D8302@532|DD 44758: DIR-810L, WNDR4500v2 & 4000@533,
R6300v1, RT-N66U@663, E1500@353, WRT54G{Lv1.1,Sv6}@250
|OpenWRT 19.7.3: RT-ACRH13, R6220, WNDR3700v4
fn0rd
DD-WRT Novice


Joined: 16 Oct 2011
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 15:57    Post subject: Reply with quote
Per Yngve Berg commented on my old post:

Per Yngve Berg wrote:
Where are the routers located? You are out of range (-88 db).


Using 5GHz i get -88 db, 2.4GHz -70 db.

I am not able to relocate any of the devices, do you have an idea how to increase the signal?

Different (active) antennas?
Different setup for RX/TX Antenna Chains (currently default 1+2+3)?

I already changed the location to Canada and set the TX Power to 30 (afaik the C7 v2 can only have max 25).

Any idea?
ramblin
DD-WRT User


Joined: 03 Nov 2015
Posts: 157
Location: Florida, USA

PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 23:13    Post subject: Reply with quote
Just to address the stability issues, I converted from "client bridge" to WDS several years back. I find it the most rock solid, stable setup I ever used. I sometimes wonder if it ever breaks. Like ian5142 I cover about 5 acres. I rarely ever drop a signal. My tx and rx errors are zero. I see others have had had issues with many recent builds so I`ve stayed behind for that reason. I run a remote log at a station just to look for ANYTHING ! Honestly it just timestamps and handshakes here ! I use Archer C7 ver.2s and TL-WR841ND ver.9s. with no issues.
fn0rd
DD-WRT Novice


Joined: 16 Oct 2011
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2019 10:15    Post subject: Reply with quote
It looks that the WDS is now more stable using 5GHz, but way slower - assuming due the bad coverage.

I have the opportunity to get an Archer C7 V4, should I replace the repater by a third archer? This will improve the signal for sure, as the repeater is more or less in the middle of both archers right now.

Any concerns having a version 4.0 archer?
The W2 chipset is the same, according to the wiki.

Wiki Archer C7 v2:
Quote:

WI1 chip1: Qualcomm Atheros QCA9558
WI1 802dot11 protocols: bgn
WI1 MIMO config: 3x3:3
WI1 antenna connector: none
WI2 module: unknown
WI2 module IF: Mini PCIe (oversized)
WI2 chip1: Qualcomm Atheros QCA9880-BR4A
WI2 802dot11 protocols: an+ac
WI2 MIMO config: 3x3:3
WI2 antenna connector: U.FL, RP-SMA



Wiki Archer C7 v4:
Quote:
WI1 chip1: Qualcomm Atheros QCA9563
WI1 802dot11 protocols: bgn
WI1 MIMO config: 3x3:3
WI1 antenna connector: U.FL, RP-SMA
WI2 chip1: Qualcomm Atheros QCA9880-BR4A
WI2 802dot11 protocols: an+ac
WI2 MIMO config: 3x3:3
WI2 antenna connector: U.FL, RP-SMA
ramblin
DD-WRT User


Joined: 03 Nov 2015
Posts: 157
Location: Florida, USA

PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2019 13:32    Post subject: Reply with quote
5GHz is fast if your close by but doesn't do well if your going any distance or thru a lot of walls. I use 2.4 only on my setup but I have a station that is 500 feet away. I get about half the speed of my AP at that distance. But its very stable.
fn0rd
DD-WRT Novice


Joined: 16 Oct 2011
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2019 13:49    Post subject: Reply with quote
That is my physical setup.
I just replaced my Repeater with AP3 (Archer C7).



In the ideal case the wifi routing is as follows:
AP1 (www attached) -> AP3 -> AP2

My question now:
The new AP3 in the middle, should it be
1. only a WDS Station or
2. Daisy chain it as described here? Means AP3 needs to be WDS Station + new virtual interface as WDS AP, which AP2 joins as WDS Station?


Update: mixed WDS AP with Station


Last edited by fn0rd on Mon May 06, 2019 15:20; edited 1 time in total
mrjcd
DD-WRT Guru


Joined: 31 Jan 2015
Posts: 5358
Location: Texas

PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2019 15:12    Post subject: Reply with quote
Just to throw this out there:
From your picture --- technically they will work that way but probably should be:
AP1 = WDS AP
AP3 = WDS Station + a VAP on it as WDS-AP for clients and for AP2 WDS-Station to connect
AP2 = WDS Station + VAP on it for clients

of course if AP3 & AP2 can reach AP1 ok it would be best to have both as WDS-Stations connected to the AP1 WDS-AP and then create regular VAPs on them for clients or use other radio band if dual band router. And if possible it is always best to have multiple routers wired setup as WAPs .... any that cannot be wired, a regular WAP can also be a set WDS-AP or WDS-Station
fn0rd
DD-WRT Novice


Joined: 16 Oct 2011
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2019 6:59    Post subject: Reply with quote
The connection from AP1 and AP2 is not so good on 5 GHz, therefore I wanted to replace the repeater with AP3.

I want to use the 5GHz for the WDS connections between the AP1-3 and 2.4GHz for the clients.

Only speaking about the WDS 5GHz:

AP1 = WDS AP
AP3 = WDS Station

AP3 = WDS VAP
AP2 = WDS Station

I have to create a virtual interface on AP3 to act as a VAP.
But when I do so, I don't see the new TAB for Ath1.1-WDS. Do I have to use the Ath1 WDS tab for enter the mac addresses or is it a bug?
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