Add NTP server to DD-WRT or not?

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Do you want your router to serve NTP?
Yes, I really WANT this feature.
55%
 55%  [ 16 ]
Well, now you mention it. Yes!
13%
 13%  [ 4 ]
No, public NTP is fine with me.
31%
 31%  [ 9 ]
Uhh... It's already there ;-)
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Total Votes : 29

Author Message
the-joker
DD-WRT Developer/Maintainer


Joined: 31 Jul 2021
Posts: 2146
Location: All over YOUR webs

PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2022 8:32    Post subject: Reply with quote
saphirely wrote:
Thank all of you discussing whether the ntp server should be on ddwrt or not.

Please let me show one fact: openwrt really set the option for end-user decide whether openwrt as ntp server or not.

I agree it should be an option, and let the user's decision to enable or not, if the total increased size of firmware (except micro build) is tiny.
For most of usage, that will be benefit. For me, I always use unbound@wrt1900acs or dnscryp-dns@r6250, both of them need precious time, if need more entware then lots of easy steps, it is not convenience at all, especially on extra USB device.


OpenWRT doesnt support 2MB routers afaik and you dont have a user interface (Luci) until minimum 8MB flash.

OpenWRT has different feature sets on better devices, JFFS apparently only 5184 KiB DD-WRT uses much more than that on 128MB flash which leaves 30/32MB for DD-WRT itself and then you have around currently 34 blocks free, which means adding new features is limited.

So OpenWRT are able to offer different features OOTB.

You can also install entware and add your own NTP server to DD-WRT today, right now if you want to. Or Just move to OpenWRT you are free to do so as long as your router isnt a Broadcom, since OpenWRT only supports a few Broadcom routers badly at that due to the fact they are closed source.

There are always tradeoffs between different 3rd party firmwares, and while I cant sit here and type it will never happen, I cant say that for sure.

What I can say is that OpenWRT has many many many developers/contributors to the code side in several key areas, and DD-WR while there are some contributors to some drivers side stuff, we dont have as many contributors to other parts of the project.

SO in order to add this, there needs to be some patch, the lead developer has his plate full and then some, so these things tend to take a backseat position, perhaps in the trunk of the car or even on a trailer far behind the most pressing day to day development efforts.

If I ask for a patch and say patches welcome, I also realize not all users have the skills but if we dont suggest it, we will never know because some do have the skills, may not have time, but thats another matter and no one is forced to do anything anyway.

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dale_gribble39
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2022 13:35    Post subject: Reply with quote
the-joker wrote:
OpenWRT has different feature sets on better devices-snip-So OpenWRT are able to offer different features OOTB.

OpenWRT also has an easier target-based build system that capable end-users can modify and create their own custom firmware image with all of the features that will fit within the constraints of the router's flash chip or to fit specific feature sets and purpose (i.e. Gargoyle firmware, OpenWRT community builds such as Divested, etc.). I hesitate to comment on the rest of your post, and whether or not DD-WRT switches from using (a customized) ntpclient binary to the ntpd applet from busybox makes no difference to me <shrug>

P.S. OpenWRT's Broadcom support, or lack thereof, is part of the inspiration behind the experimental drivers and experimental MIPSR1 DD-WRT builds. Or not. Just my speculation on that.

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the-joker
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Joined: 31 Jul 2021
Posts: 2146
Location: All over YOUR webs

PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2022 14:27    Post subject: Reply with quote
I dont much care what would be the proposed, standalone or applet.

If I had to choose between NTP server and Elliptic curve support for SSH, I much rather go with the latter and not the former. Since my router only has 34 flash blocks free, 128MB divided between DD-WRT and JFFS2.

In reality there are for more benefits to a larger user base with better/more secure and faster ciphers for SSH (especially for remote management) than half a dozen users who can already install entware for some NTP server... which we already know the routers dont have a RTC and a NTP server should be accurate always under all circumstances even when WAN is not available.

If a cipher that adds 50KB is not being added and its just a little =y needed, now imagine the chances of a NTP server which will be way more than 50KB. Ill find out how much just for the hell of a fun discussion. And you would also need User interface entries and nvram parameters, so all that adds up the KB weight while the cipher adds only 50KB all in.

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Alozaros
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2022 8:57    Post subject: Reply with quote
NTP server hell no, you could have it via Entware its not a rocket science, but better cypher...hell yea...we need that much more...
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TP-Link WR740Nv1 ---DD-WRT 55179 WAP
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dale_gribble39
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Joined: 11 Jun 2022
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2022 12:48    Post subject: Reply with quote
As those charming guys who originated from Scarborough, Ontario, Canada sang in a song that was released in 1998, "It's all been done...". The competition not only has adopted the use of the busybox ntpd applet vs. ntpclient, they have also added ed25519 support to dropbear. OpenWRT now by default uses https webUI access as well. Gargoyle seems to have opted to stay "behind the curve" in some aspects (1.13.x is based on the 19.07.x OpenWRT development branch). Anything is possible here, but first impressions leave a lasting mark on the direction of things where I'm concerned.
_________________
"The woods are lovely, dark and deep,
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep." - Robert Frost

"I am one of the noticeable ones - notice me" - Dale Frances McKenzie Bozzio

<fact>code knows no gender</fact>

This is me, knowing I've ruffled your feathers, and not giving a ****
Some people are still hard-headed.

--------------------------------------
Mac Pro (Mid 2012) - Two 2.4GHz 6-Core Intel Xeon E5645 processors 64GB 1333MHz DDR3 ECC SDRAM OpenSUSE Leap 15.5
legolas
DD-WRT Novice


Joined: 22 Feb 2017
Posts: 26

PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2023 22:12    Post subject: Reply with quote
I just configured the ntpd in my Linksys WRT54G (Broadcom BCM5352 chip rev 0, DD-WRT v24-sp2 (08/12/10) mini - build 14929)

I used this package http://archive.openwrt.org/backfire/10.03.1/brcm-2.4/packages/ntpd_4.2.6p3-2_brcm-2.4.ipk

Since it's in RAM, you need to re-download every time the router boots up. It can be done using a startup script:
Code:
cat << \EOF > /tmp/setup_ntpd.sh
#!/bin/sh
mkdir /tmp/ntp
while sleep 2m # for internet
do
  # only http is supported
  wget http://archive.openwrt.org/backfire/10.03.1/brcm-2.4/packages/ntpd_4.2.6p3-2_brcm-2.4.ipk -O /tmp/ntp/ntpd.ipk
  [ `ls -l /tmp/ntp/ntpd.ipk | awk '{print $5}'` == 196439 ] && break
done
if [ $(md5sum /tmp/ntp/ntpd.ipk | awk '{print $1}') != "0ce6b406e6dcb0623942f49f5f23e44a" ]
then logger "Package 'ntpd' checksum mismatch, exiting!"
  exit
fi
tar zxpf /tmp/ntp/ntpd.ipk -C /tmp/ntp
tar zxpf /tmp/ntp/data.tar.gz -C /tmp/ntp

# -d flag is used for debug, remove it to run as a daemon
/tmp/ntp/sbin/ntpd -d -f /tmp/ntp/etc/ntp.conf

EOF
chmod +x /tmp/setup_ntpd.sh
/tmp/setup_ntpd.sh &


Note that any package can be installed in dd-wrt router from https://archive.openwrt.org/, you just need to find the one that is compatible with your device.

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