FCC requiring encrypted router firmware 6/2/16

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mk262
DD-WRT Novice


Joined: 28 Oct 2013
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 14:49    Post subject: FCC requiring encrypted router firmware 6/2/16 Reply with quote
https://apps.fcc.gov/kdb/GetAttachment.html?id=1UiSJRK869RsyQddPi5hpw%3D%3D&desc=594280%20D02%20U-NII%20Device%20Security%20v01r02&tracking_number=39498

https://apps.fcc.gov/oetcf/kdb/forms/FTSSearchResultPage.cfm?id=39498&switch=P

Unless I'm missing something, this seems like a problem. Or is this some sort of binary blob solution?

edit: I did search the forums and couldn't find another thread on this
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slobodan
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 23:53    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yes, it has become a problem because DD-WRT has been used to violate radio emission rules. In isolated areas this isn't a problem, but in crowded areas it is a problem.
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Asus RT-N16 running Merlin LTS fork RT-N16_3.0.0.4_374.43_2-25E8j9527.trx with entware-ng.

2 times Asus RT-N16 running dd-wrt.v24-33772_NEWD-2_K3.x_big.bin with entware-ng

E4200 V1 running dd-wrt.v24-33772_NEWD-2_K3.x_mega-e3000.bin

3 times Linksys WRT610N V2 converted to E3000 and 1 original E3000 running dd-wrt.v24-33772_NEWD-2_K3.x_mega-e3000.bin (bridged with LAN cable)

BrainSlayer
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2015 4:07    Post subject: Reply with quote
dd-wrt was mentioned as example. so all third party firmwares are affected. but i'm most upset on, that the fcc never try to talk with us. i mean its not a problem to follow the regulations, even for us. see the superchannel options and most routers have the country code identity stored somewhere else in flash memory to restrict it. so the way the fcc is going, is very strange.
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mwbuss8
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2015 5:52    Post subject: Reply with quote
BrainSlayer wrote:
dd-wrt was mentioned as example. so all third party firmwares are affected. but i'm most upset on, that the fcc never try to talk with us. i mean its not a problem to follow the regulations, even for us. see the superchannel options and most routers have the country code identity stored somewhere else in flash memory to restrict it. so the way the fcc is going, is very strange.

Just in time for QCA to give a big CPU bump too... like the dual core 1.4ghz IPQ8064. Hopefully manufacturers won't comply with this on the global market.
buddee
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2015 13:21    Post subject: Reply with quote
This will affect US users. FCC is a commission in the United States and they will regulate thereof. As far as them not reaching out to 3rd party firmware to follow their guidelines, they mostly can't and won't due to 3rd party firmware not being exclusively developed in the United States. Therefore, they cannot step out of their jurisdiction and ask a 3rd party firmware that is developed in another country to comply with their regulations. They can, however, regulate hardware that is in or coming into the US which would allow or disallow such firmwares to be used.
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mwbuss8
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2015 15:49    Post subject: Reply with quote
buddee wrote:
This will affect US users. FCC is a commission in the United States and they will regulate thereof. As far as them not reaching out to 3rd party firmware to follow their guidelines, they mostly can't and won't due to 3rd party firmware not being exclusively developed in the United States. Therefore, they cannot step out of their jurisdiction and ask a 3rd party firmware that is developed in another country to comply with their regulations. They can, however, regulate hardware that is in or coming into the US which would allow or disallow such firmwares to be used.

I know it applies specifically to the US, but I'm wondering if at least some manufacturers will start doing it across the board. Its 1 more hastle for support and customer service with an additional version. Some do multiple versions anyway though.
AcostaJA
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2015 16:15    Post subject: Reply with quote
I Fear these new rules will soon be adopted by other countries, just to name the UE and Japan the most likely.

one thing I don't have clear is the legacy hardware currently being sell, does this means routers like Linksys WRT-1900AC can't sell anymore with customizable firmware?

I mean later H.W. vendors will deliver special variants of the SOIC with disabled capability to overcome this issue and allow customization thru US-Specific models, for DD-WRT means more special builds just for the US Variants, and anyother country with similar rules.

I mean Japan already have similar requirements but not as deep.
briarknit
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Joined: 31 Aug 2015
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2015 16:16    Post subject: Re: FCC requiring encrypted router firmware 6/2/16 Reply with quote
Shouldn't the DD-WRT community be more concerned about this? I've read through all of the articles and I've searched through the forums here and nobody seems to be concerned about this.

Am I lost or something? Am I wrong in thinking that rules like this will severely impact the DD-WRT community? Couldn't this force the community to resort to buying routers from outside of the country?
slobodan
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2015 17:31    Post subject: Reply with quote
If you can't beat 'em, join 'em. This means that DD-WRT would have to play by FCC rules in respect to US market and in agreement with hardware manufacturers provide alternative cryptographically signed (and crippled) firmwares for their routers.
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2 times RT-AC56U running 33772 with entware-ng, Yamon 3 (SFE disabled).

Asus RT-N16 running Merlin LTS fork RT-N16_3.0.0.4_374.43_2-25E8j9527.trx with entware-ng.

2 times Asus RT-N16 running dd-wrt.v24-33772_NEWD-2_K3.x_big.bin with entware-ng

E4200 V1 running dd-wrt.v24-33772_NEWD-2_K3.x_mega-e3000.bin

3 times Linksys WRT610N V2 converted to E3000 and 1 original E3000 running dd-wrt.v24-33772_NEWD-2_K3.x_mega-e3000.bin (bridged with LAN cable)

briarknit
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2015 18:11    Post subject: Reply with quote
slobodan wrote:
If you can't beat 'em, join 'em. This means that DD-WRT would have to play by FCC rules in respect to US market and in agreement with hardware manufacturers provide alternative cryptographically signed (and crippled) firmwares for their routers.


Does that mean that DD-WRT would still be flashable onto a router, but the functionality enabling illegal channels would be removed from all builds?
slobodan
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2015 18:27    Post subject: Reply with quote
briarknit wrote:
Does that mean that DD-WRT would still be flashable onto a router, but the functionality enabling illegal channels would be removed from all builds?

For now, it is just a proposal, it is not yet DD-WRT policy.

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2 times RT-AC56U running 33772 with entware-ng, Yamon 3 (SFE disabled).

Asus RT-N16 running Merlin LTS fork RT-N16_3.0.0.4_374.43_2-25E8j9527.trx with entware-ng.

2 times Asus RT-N16 running dd-wrt.v24-33772_NEWD-2_K3.x_big.bin with entware-ng

E4200 V1 running dd-wrt.v24-33772_NEWD-2_K3.x_mega-e3000.bin

3 times Linksys WRT610N V2 converted to E3000 and 1 original E3000 running dd-wrt.v24-33772_NEWD-2_K3.x_mega-e3000.bin (bridged with LAN cable)

AcostaJA
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Joined: 24 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2015 18:19    Post subject: Reply with quote
What I think it means is that HW vendors are required to enforce oficial (or FCC allowed) firmware in thir devices, do not means nobody could never hacy and bypass these measures, seems just an stop to permissive proporals like Linksys WRT-1900AC.

Whatever, the worst case means HW vendors would be required to "bless"(sign) the DD-WRT builds and provide a developer variant or simulator allowing un-signed F/W.
tdiguy
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Joined: 20 Apr 2010
Posts: 192

PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2015 3:34    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hopefully this will not pass. Users here in the USA need to make their voices heard though otherwise the only voice they will hear is the ones that started this.
Not really sure what can be done when it comes to the dd-wrt developer side of things, but that is primarily because i am totally unfamiliar with dd-wrt development and or who the devs are.
I assume that if something was done on the firmware side to ensure US routers obey FCC regulations that the fcc might lose interest.
pwhalley
DD-WRT User


Joined: 24 Oct 2006
Posts: 56

PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2015 15:58    Post subject: Reply with quote
There should be a means to comment on this rule making.

As I see it this is no different than NHTSA requiring software controlling automotive engines to restrict speed limit to nationally approved maximum. I wouldn't expect the drones at the FCC to understand the analogy however.

Rise up! Make a huge fuss! You don't need to be rational or make a lot of sense, just throw a tantrum and you will very likely get your way. At least that is the way I see the our government working nowadays.

Seriously though. We should be letting our congressmen and the FCC know that this is overreach. One problem is that the FCC is not getting the funding it wants and is having to close offices. These field offices have the people that would be able to (more) easily id and gather evidence on offenders. So the next best thing is to make another rule using the rational that you no longer have the means to police the users - failing to realize that if you can't police, you still won't find those breaking the rules! All the rule did was interfere with those minding their own business in a creative way.

Rant ends.

P

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tdiguy
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2015 8:54    Post subject: Reply with quote
To me its somewhat funny since there are buffalo units that are being sold that come with dd-wrt pre-installed on them right from the mfg.
I have liked asus and buffalo for a while now because of the firmware recovery mode ( ie o crap i uploaded the wrong file or i bumped the wall wart and powered off the unit ) I agree though i need to figure out how to get in touch with them and complain about the proposition of not being allowed to modify MY router. If individuals are jerking around and doing things not permitted in the usa they need to be held accountable, not everyone that enjoys having a vpn on a router that cost under 100$.
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