Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2022 4:40 Post subject: newer builds on weak hardware?
Over 3 years ago, the Archer C7 was criticized as having a weak processor and that continuing to flash new versions of the dd-wrt firmware might eat into system resources that would be "missed" (cause performance "lag" or whatever). (I am interested in v5 but seems we can keep the discussion more general.) Here is where that is stated (it’s even “stickied”):
https://forum.dd-wrt.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=321284&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
Another possible criticism is that some (all?) recent builds for this router are using both the anth9k and anth10k driver, so that uses more long term storage (whatever the hard drive in these devices is called – flash memory space?). Unless that’s more of a RAM consideration.
I am trying to figure out what “tasks” put a lot of load on the router’s processor. I have
Firmware Version DD-WRT v3.0-r50308 std (10/01/22)
Kernel Version Linux 3.18.140-d6 #154321 Sat Oct 1
It’s just me on my network so I haven’t been able to put much load on the router & reach a conclusion. I also don’t have wireless turned on.
What tasks really use up the processing power? My only educated guess is high data transfer speeds. I ran a speed test but I guess that doesn’t actually transfer data because the CPU indicator in the GUI stayed at 0% the whole time (seems to be around 3% for light web browsing).
My main question is should users stop and think before continuing to upgrade? Or did something come into play to pacify "the newer kernels are using more and more resources?"
Last edited by adFFhd1 on Tue Dec 27, 2022 15:38; edited 1 time in total
Joined: 16 Nov 2015 Posts: 6435 Location: UK, London, just across the river..
Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2022 7:44 Post subject:
well...compare to the new and better dual core cpu devices on the market, your Archer C7 v5 https://wikidevi.wi-cat.ru/TP-LINK_Archer_C7_v5.x is not the best router for a home use...but for basic use it will do...ok as it still has a good specs...
Things that put a load on the CPU can vary a lot...
CPU gets eaten mostly on VPN use or QoS and some sort of DNS encryption/DNSSEC verification...as well on WAN to LAN performance (NAT)...especially if its pppoe or lots of wifi clients too
If you have 200Mbit+ WAN connection you may consider of an upgrade...but still not a dew...
Moving to the last builds should not make a difference...as those of yours are made for kernel 3.18..and your router still has 128Mb of functional RAM...and 16MB flash size...must be able to bare the most of the extras/services and the important binaries like...openssl..
For basic use Archer C7 v5 should be ok...if you use VPN and QoS + lots of clients connected and lots of traffic, than you should consider an upgrade...
Good "worry free" choice is a second hand Netgear R7800...as the most used and recommended router around...
I don't see any reason you should not update...to the last builds...I do update my 1043v2 which shares almost the same CPU/switch like Archer C7 and its fine...(well im still using/abusing it)
If you have any issues with it first base...check your settings for user set up error...very often it happens like that...as far as Archer C7 is on the old kernel (3.18 ) it should be fine...as it still has some support... _________________ Atheros
TP-Link WR740Nv1 ---DD-WRT 55630 WAP
TP-Link WR1043NDv2 -DD-WRT 55723 Gateway/DoT,Forced DNS,Ad-Block,Firewall,x4VLAN,VPN
TP-Link WR1043NDv2 -Gargoyle OS 1.15.x AP,DNS,QoS,Quotas
Qualcomm-Atheros
Netgear XR500 --DD-WRT 55779 Gateway/DoH,Forced DNS,AP Isolation,4VLAN,Ad-Block,Firewall,Vanilla
Netgear R7800 --DD-WRT 55779 Gateway/DoT,AD-Block,Forced DNS,AP&Net Isolation,x3VLAN,Firewall,Vanilla
Netgear R9000 --DD-WRT 55779 Gateway/DoT,AD-Block,AP Isolation,Firewall,Forced DNS,x2VLAN,Vanilla
Broadcom
Netgear R7000 --DD-WRT 55460 Gateway/SmartDNS/DoH,AD-Block,Firewall,Forced DNS,x3VLAN,VPN
NOT USING 5Ghz ANYWHERE
------------------------------------------------------
Stubby DNS over TLS I DNSCrypt v2 by mac913
Joined: 15 Aug 2016 Posts: 223 Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2022 22:45 Post subject: Re: newer builds on weak hardware?
adFFhd1 wrote:
...
My main question is should users stop and think before continuing to upgrade?
Good question.
An IT device performs optimally when its hardware (h/w) can render the demands from software (s/w) functions within its designed specs. As s/w being further developed with more advanced functionalities, it will, inevitably, put more stress on the old h/w. That's given.
The decision to upgrade software rests with users.
I advised my relatives and friends that it's better to follow, rather than being a pioneer in IT, unless they are experts with relevant knowledge.
And, in terms of s/w updating, that would be keeping an eye on the relevant forum for their same h/w being reported as updated with no issues. And follow.
In my native language there is a saying. 'Invited to a feast, go with confidence. Crossing a river (i.e. by foot), follow others'. _________________ Life is a journey; travel alone makes it less enjoyable and lonely.
My thinking..
the decision can sometimes be performance vs capabilities vs security.
Older firmware will tend to be worse security w/ better performance.
The manufacturers firmware (instead of DD-WRT) can look more attractive after a while, if they are better on security than a few year old DD-WRT firmware.
I don't have facts to back this up. More just observations of the general IT landscape.
Joined: 16 Nov 2015 Posts: 6435 Location: UK, London, just across the river..
Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2022 9:19 Post subject:
well.....speaking of "a" performance...can you run the stock firmware on a PC as easy as you can run DDWRT on it...???
Than speaking of performance ...there is nothing over the stock firmware, that DDWRT doesn't have..and it delivers even more...but its a matter of understanding of "how the systems works" ...
Sure, that's is true ...so true...
But, there are at least 10 more reasons why running stock firmware is not the best idea...
and it lacks of options...
On security side...on stock firmware...consider a tons of unpatched stuff..where on DDWRT it gets patched immediately...
If you look at the bride side...things in the networking area are evolving quickly...so, you choose at the end...
I dont run any stock firmware... _________________ Atheros
TP-Link WR740Nv1 ---DD-WRT 55630 WAP
TP-Link WR1043NDv2 -DD-WRT 55723 Gateway/DoT,Forced DNS,Ad-Block,Firewall,x4VLAN,VPN
TP-Link WR1043NDv2 -Gargoyle OS 1.15.x AP,DNS,QoS,Quotas
Qualcomm-Atheros
Netgear XR500 --DD-WRT 55779 Gateway/DoH,Forced DNS,AP Isolation,4VLAN,Ad-Block,Firewall,Vanilla
Netgear R7800 --DD-WRT 55779 Gateway/DoT,AD-Block,Forced DNS,AP&Net Isolation,x3VLAN,Firewall,Vanilla
Netgear R9000 --DD-WRT 55779 Gateway/DoT,AD-Block,AP Isolation,Firewall,Forced DNS,x2VLAN,Vanilla
Broadcom
Netgear R7000 --DD-WRT 55460 Gateway/SmartDNS/DoH,AD-Block,Firewall,Forced DNS,x3VLAN,VPN
NOT USING 5Ghz ANYWHERE
------------------------------------------------------
Stubby DNS over TLS I DNSCrypt v2 by mac913
well.....speaking of "a" performance...can you run the stock firmware on a PC as easy as you can run DDWRT on it...???
Than speaking of performance ...there is nothing over the stock firmware, that DDWRT doesn't have..and it delivers even more...but its a matter of understanding of "how the systems works" ...
By "performance," I mean how the firmware & hardware would handle various resource intensive tasks. One of my main points is that older DD-WRT firmware vs more up to date "stock" firmware. It's true that some manufacturers don't update their stock firmware for very long counting from time of release.
Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2023 20:48 Post subject: Re: newer builds on weak hardware?
DWCruiser wrote:
I advised my relatives and friends that it's better to follow, rather than being a pioneer in IT, unless they are experts with relevant knowledge.
Or as a former manager use to point out, "bleeding edge is often your blood..."
DWCruiser wrote:
And, in terms of s/w updating, that would be keeping an eye on the relevant forum for their same h/w being reported as updated with no issues. And follow.
My rule of thumb on older hardware is have it do one thing. If everything works, don't upgrade.
DWCruiser wrote:
In my native language there is a saying. 'Invited to a feast, go with confidence. Crossing a river (i.e. by foot), follow others'.
The catch-22 here is if you fall behind on which version you use, many updates, vulnerability patches, enhancements, etc. will be missing and you will come here asking whiskey tango foxtrot oscar and you will be told to upgrade to current release, anyway. _________________ "The woods are lovely, dark and deep,
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep." - Robert Frost
"I am one of the noticeable ones - notice me" - Dale Frances McKenzie Bozzio
The catch-22 here is if you fall behind on which version you use, many updates, vulnerability patches, enhancements, etc. will be missing and you will come here asking whiskey tango foxtrot oscar and you will be told to upgrade to current release, anyway.
With custom ROMs like DD-WRT, you stand a higher risk of bricking your router with an update than being vulnerable to the various exploits. And, because so many disparate devices are supported, you're almost on your own figuring out which newer release doesn't brick your old router.
[/quote]
With custom ROMs like DD-WRT, you stand a higher risk of bricking your router with an update than being vulnerable to the various exploits. And, because so many disparate devices are supported, you're almost on your own figuring out which newer release doesn't brick your old router.
"[/url][/quote]
Except you're not alone - others in the forum can help you.
And if you can wait one day, you will see if a new release is bricking other people's routers or not from the reports of others.
If your router is so unpopular as to not have feedback for it - it's time to get another router. _________________ ------------------------------------
Netgear XR500 OpenWrt-23.05.3 (Gateway)
Linksys EA8500 OpenWrt-23.05.3 (Wired AP)
Linksys WRT3200ACM DD-WRT r55779 (spare Wired AP)
Netgear WNDR3700v4 DD-WRT r55779 (spare Gateway)
Photos: https://www.flickr.com/photos/nickant44/albums
And if you can wait one day, you will see if a new release is bricking other people's routers or not from the reports of others.
Not bricking is part of it... does new firmware break other working features, introduce other bugs?
nickant wrote:
If your router is so unpopular as to not have feedback for it - it's time to get another router.
Or, just stay on the version that's working... both good choices. Any upgrade comes down to one's use case, i.e. if one's unpopular router is serving its function, no compelling reason to upgrade firmware nor hardware.
