Surge protecting your router correctly

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yoyoma2
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2022 19:03    Post subject: Surge protecting your router correctly Reply with quote
There is a (now locked) thread in "Advanced Networking" asking "Is it possible to electrocute [sic] device through Ethernet cable?". I thought I'd share this experience to save others some misery.

One time, after the power returned after a power failure I didn't have internet. The router appeared dead and after investigation it was fried. $ Backup router...still no internet. More investigation and the APC PDU powering the router was also fried. $$ ...still no internet. In a different building (connected by ethernet to router) the PC USB mouse is fried and doesn't light up. $$$ Backup mouse...same thing. Ethernet and USB on motherboard are fried. New motherboard. $$$$ ...still no internet. The ethernet over coax device is fried $$$$$. The surge protector for the router is fried $$$$$$. Last but not least a freezer is fried $$$$$$$

The answer is yes, ethernet cable (or any wire/cable) can transmit a power surge between devices.

The surge protector at the router that let in the surge was my oldest one. It's not that surge protectors age per se but they wear out with every surge absorbed. As with security, you are only as safe as your weakest link. Once the surge is inside, devices connected by any wires can take each other out despite their own excellent surge protector. I have since installed a whole home surge protector. Even the freezer now has a device that waits a few minutes to reapply power after a power failure.

Oh and if you think your power company or even your surge protector manufacturer will take responsibility I have a bridge to sell you...
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the-joker
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2022 19:15    Post subject: Reply with quote
That thread was asking how to do it, not about surge portection, I have UPS for this anyway, I locked it after answering it, it had nothing todo with surge protection IMHO.

OpenSource Ghost wrote:
snip... Would it simply require connecting specific Ethernet cable pinouts to wall power outlet?

The guy is asking which wires on Ethernet cable to wire to high voltage in order to do this IMO, I couldn't believe what he was asking/implying.

Something may be lost in translation, its a possibility and a risk Im willing to take in some zealous trivial and safe activity such as locking the thread, but that last sentence just made me think 4 times before deciding on locking the thread rather than risk someone just telling him what to do in order to achieve it.

And at that, no is responsible for what he may or may not do or try.

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Last edited by the-joker on Fri Sep 30, 2022 19:31; edited 6 times in total
dale_gribble39
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2022 19:18    Post subject: Re: Surge protecting your router correctly Reply with quote
yoyoma2 wrote:
Oh and if you think your power company or even your surge protector manufacturer will take responsibility I have a bridge to sell you...

Is it as sweet a deal as oceanfront property in South Dakota? If so, I'm in! <lol>

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egosumumbravir
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2022 8:02    Post subject: Re: Surge protecting your router correctly Reply with quote
yoyoma2 wrote:
"Is it possible to electrocute [sic] device through Ethernet cable?"

If the cable is made out of electrically conductive copper: absolutely.

If it's glass and plastic, then not so much. On the other hand, with a powerful enough laser you could burn out the receive optics so...
the-joker
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2022 12:09    Post subject: Reply with quote
Sure, or plug the router in and dump it on a bowl filled with salty water, or, just drop the the live wire on one end and the negative on the other end, then put your tongue in one of the Ethernet sockets and flip the switch for that Ultimate Frankenstein feeling.

Not only do you get to claim water damage but real electrocution on yerself and electrical damage on the unit and spend a few hours in the E.R. or permanently on he R.I.P. garden in Tombstone city.

FYI never seen ethernet cables made out 100% plastic/glass Wink, surely the core is copper on all of them.

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egosumumbravir
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2022 20:48    Post subject: Reply with quote
the-joker wrote:
FYI never seen ethernet cables made out 100% plastic/glass Wink

This post brought to you via 100% non electrically conductive plastic and glass OM4 optical fibre ethernet cables Razz

Although strictly speaking, probably every other post is carried by optical fibres at some stage too. Embarassed
the-joker
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2022 21:44    Post subject: Reply with quote
Fiber != Ethernet not the rj45 up to 1gig ports on most routers. As for your later statement, depends, many modern infrastructures still copper/fiber hybrids, the cost of going 100% fiber is reserved to very few countries. But for some legs depends on the routing from where to where and the slowest link wins between A<>B
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DWCruiser
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2022 22:02    Post subject: Reply with quote
Our house was built in the 50s by the original owner. We installed a power-surge protector (at the main board) not long after we bought it.

And it's worth every cent. Believe me.

You see, i was fixing a wired lawnmower wiring many moons ago, while forgetting it was a live wire. But the auto-surge quickly cut off its power supply, so my exposure was so short that i felt a very very short and only mild electrocution to live on and write this story. Smile.

In addition, a power-surge protector also 'let' you know when a power wall socket is overloaded. It automatically cuts off its power supply to the wiring of that wall socket. It's a fact that overload incidents happen more often than many people realise.

I now use a battery-operated lawnmower. Instead, i have many IT equipment around that are vulnerable to power surges. Imagine water rushing down from a dam AFTER being closed for repairs and maintenance. A power restoration, after blackout, sometimes kinda has similar effect.

In my setup, i also use an UPS which supplies power to critical devices such as modem, routers, switches to avoid blackouts as well as brownouts.

In short, your home should have a whole house power-surge protector installed as a minimum. Ask your local electrician. It's not that expensive where i live.

Good luck.

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dale_gribble39
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2022 22:16    Post subject: Reply with quote
Current NEC in USA requires duplex outlets to be either GFCI or AFCI, depending on location. Add the whole-home surge suppressor and UPS for critical equipment and most issues can be avoided. Buying older homes can be catch-22 if you don't stipulate that the electrical system must meet current code requirements in the process.
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And miles to go before I sleep,
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Gameman Advanced Kid
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2022 1:56    Post subject: Reply with quote
I think another most effective way to surge protect is to make sure the outlets in your house still have good and tight terminals. if the plug feels loose when plugging it into the outlet, you will want to replace the outlet. These outlets terminals have already worn out enough to where there is already high resistance going on at the plug for all terminals.
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egosumumbravir
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2022 3:19    Post subject: Reply with quote
the-joker wrote:
Fiber != Ethernet

True, but the same holds for RJ45 twisted pair copper. They're merely physical layers that carry the Ethernet protocol just like coaxial cable, radio frequency, naked beams of light and even avian carriers can do if one is patient enough.
If one is not patient enough, then for anything faster than 10Gbps ethernet, optical fibre is the only option for any range a copper DAC won't reach.

I don't doubt that many countries still use copper in some form for their last mile connectivity. I'd be staggered to find anywhere that doesn't backhaul over fibre at some point. Hell, if the server hosting this forum is in a data center, it's certainly interconnected with fibre.
the-joker
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2022 7:44    Post subject: Reply with quote
To actually go ontopic of surge protection I have 3 UPS 1200VA which are absolutely necessary where I currently live. These serve to provide clean stable power to all my equipment during my barrage of near daily bullshit with the grid. The house where I live is 5 years old, the electrical system is new but standards here are shite.

The power situation here is absurd, we have 18KW solar panels with a Fronius inverter which is connected to the grid with the usual anti-islanding protection (no power from the provider the inverter shuts off we dont store any electricity in batteries), the idiots who did the installation ballsed it up in several ways I wont bother going into details about, the Fronius inverter is shite, cant cope with the panels being suddenly wet, causes the main circuit breaker at the house to trip, this time of the year it rains, so imagine how many times this happens. The Fronius people dont have firmware updates for it.

Then there are the constant power spikes from the provider that go over the maximum 250Volts sometimes hit 290V, so on a bad day I have between 2 and 25+ main breaker trips (and my favorite are the times where the power goes off for 500milliseconds enough to trigger the UPS ON/OFF), on a good day zero, all AOK.

Without the UPS several things would have died already, one of the UPS itself is already on its way out batteries are fine the control boards are half dead) because of these very constant interruptions. We dont have any of these whole house surge protection systems, I did ask my electrician, but he doesn't know or cant be bothered (most professionals in any trade here in this country do what they like not what customers want), there is a somewhat gap in language barrier anyway but overall its dire.

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DWCruiser
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2022 10:27    Post subject: Reply with quote
I have a lot of sympathy for your situation with electricity.

Despite the challenges at where you currently live, you sound like, to me, you have managed it much better than most people who have little knowledge about electricity.

Cheers

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the-joker
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2022 11:51    Post subject: Reply with quote
I dont have a valid certification here in this country, but back home one of my many bag of tricks is tech repair, though certification or not if you can plug it onto a wall or carry it around with you and does XYZ and is broken somewhere I can usually repair or replace if the components aren't repairable, I have been doing this in even more extended capacity of hardware modification and even designing my own circuit boards for nearly 40 years.

Electrician job though is much simpler, circuits are simpler and there is no mystery how it works, so its not for lack of knowledge, I cant be bothered to fix the issues where I live as Im expecting to leave this shit hole soon. In fact Im overdue the leaving part now.

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