Posted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 16:09 Post subject: Is it worth upgrading to Netgear r7800?
I have a linksys 1900acs v.1 I'm using build 44048 as the last recommended build and it runs fine. Even wireless is good in my whole house. I monitor the build threads and will probably only upgrade when most testers conclude it's a good build. I tend to be in the camp of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"
I notice posts every so often from people mentioning they would pick up a Netgear r7800 off ebay. I'm wondering if that's worth it over what I have?
Will the Netgear router offer any noticeable improvements other than better compatibility with dd-wrt builds? $100 is $100 and they seem to still be going for around that even used.
I'm talking about real world performance though. What would the Netgear 7800 do that my current router doesn't? Would I see a lot better wifi signal and range or something else?
Or is it just better for testing new builds of dd-wrt? I don't do that much. I just install a firmware and leave it alone for the most part.
I wouldn't mind buying one if I knew the performance was going to be way better. I just don't want spend the money for something that's only going to increase wireless speed a tiny bit.
I replaced a 1900ACSv1 running 44048 with an r7800 running 44048 initially, then upgraded it to 46854. This is my main wifi AP for my house. I also added another r7800 to cover a dead zone in my house.
The r7800s have been super stable with no wifi issues with any devices that I can tell. Wifi signal strength is about the same as the 1900ACS. WIFI throughput (speedtest) is about the same as the 1900ACS too - maybe a little bit faster. The main benefit, as others have noted, is it is much better supported and works with the newest builds.
The r7800 just works, wireless throughput increased a bit.
My reasoning?
Linksys isn't interested in any kind of support, WiFi drivers are abandoned and not feature complete; also my r7800 was a gift
I went from a WRT1200ACv2 to an R7800. The wireless performance is better, but more importantly I can stay with the current betas for DD-WRT. The day will come when there is a security problem with DD-WRT, and if you're stuck with r44048 you won't be able to get a fix for it.
The other side of this is that with the R7800 I had a serious problem with certain older Intel wifi cards that can only use N having performance problems -- something 9Mbps download speeds. I typically get about 900Mbps down from my ISP. The fix was to switch to the vanilla driver for both radios. But while I was sorting it out, I switched back to the WRT1200ACv2. It definitely seemed to be able to keep up with the near-Gbps speed that we have, and it allowed the N-only clients to work correctly. They get 50-60Mbps now with the R7800. _________________ Netgear R9000
Netgear R7800 (spare)
Linksys WRT1200ac v2 (spare)
Joined: 08 May 2018 Posts: 14222 Location: Texas, USA
Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2021 2:40 Post subject:
jwieland wrote:
The other side of this is that with the R7800 I had a serious problem with certain older Intel wifi cards that can only use N having performance problems -- something 9Mbps download speeds. I typically get about 900Mbps down from my ISP. The fix was to switch to the vanilla driver for both radios.
Please elaborate on which specific Intel hardware was involved and what specific wireless configurations were set.
@ho1Aetoo, I didn't mean to remove your first comment regarding vanilla vs. dd-wrt driver and firmware from this thread, but I didn't see the above part of the post until just now. I will include it here for posterity:
ho1Aetoo wrote:
Is all known.
We already noticed when the dd-wrt firmware was introduced that it has performance problems here and there with certain clients.
The vanilla firmware is the "old" firmware that ran for years on the dd-wrt atheros routers without problems.
Has its reasons why many use the vanilla firmware.
and just because there are problems with a specific WLAN firmware does not mean that the R7800 has general problems with any clients.
In general, it has one of the best and most stable WLANs.
and again this is not the WLAN driver but the firmware for the WLAN chipset
firmware and drivers are two different things
the used drivers are:
Code:
/lib/modules/4.9.xxx/ath10k <- atheros WLAN driver for AC chipsets
/lib/modules/4.9.xxx/ath <- atheros shared Modul (contains the common shared regulatory code )
/lib/modules/4.9.xxx/mac80211 <- framework for SoftMAC wireless devices
/lib/modules/4.9.xxx/compat <- compatibility modul for older kernels
The other side of this is that with the R7800 I had a serious problem with certain older Intel wifi cards that can only use N having performance problems -- something like 9Mbps download speeds. I typically get about 900Mbps down from my ISP. The fix was to switch to the vanilla driver for both radios.
Please elaborate on which specific Intel hardware was involved and what specific wireless configurations were set.
Intel Centrino Advanced-N 6205 - 2 machines w/ Windows 10
Intel Centrino Wireless-N 6150 - 1 machine w/ Windows 10
The 6205's can use N on 5GHz, and they will have the problem with the DD-WRT firmware on either radio.
And I've got an older Roku (Express Plus 3910) that only does 2.4 GHz with N, and it would show the problem too.
Wireless Interface wlan0 [5 GHz/802.11ac] - QCA9984 802.11ac - Max Vaps(16)
Wireless Mode: AP
Wireless Network Mode: AC/N Mixed
Channel Width: VHT80 (80 MHz)
Wireless Channel: 36 - 5180 MHz
Extension Channel: UU (+6)
Allow Channel Overlapping: Disable
Wireless Network Name (SSID):
Wireless SSID Broadcast: Enable
Firmware Type: VANILLA
Regulatory Domain: United States
TX Power: 30
Antenna Gain: 0
U-APSD: Disable
Disassoc Low Ack: Enable
Noise Immunity: Disable
QCA Q-Boost / TDMA: Disable
SIFS Trigger Time (ms): 0
Protection Mode: RTS/CTS
RTS Threshold: Enable
Threshold: 784
Airtime Policy: Disabled
Short Preamble: Enable
Short GI: Enable
Single User Beamforming: Enable
Multi User Beamforming: Disable
TX Antenna Chains: 1+2+3+4
RX Antenna Chains: 1+2+3+4
AP Isolation: Disable
Beacon Interval: 300
DTIM Interval: 1
Airtime Fairness: Disable
WMM Support: Enable
Radar Detection: Disable
ScanList: Default
Sensitivity Range (ACK Timing): 3160
Max Associated Clients: 256
Minimum Signal for authenticate: -128
Minimum Signal for connection: -128
Poll Time for signal lookup: 10
Amount of allowed low signals: 3
Multicast To Unicast: Disable
Network Configuration: Bridged
Radio Scheduling: Disable
Wireless Interface wlan1 [2.4 GHz] - QCA9984 802.11ac - Max Vaps(16)
Wireless Mode: AP
Wireless Network Mode: NG-Mixed
Channel Width: Full (20 MHz)
Wireless Channel: 11 - 2462 MHz
TurboQAM (QAM256) support: Disable
Wireless Network Name (SSID):
Wireless SSID Broadcast: Enable
Firmware Type: VANILLA
TX Power: 30
Antenna Gain: 0
LDPC (Disable for ESP8266): Enable
U-APSD (Automatic Power Save): Disable
Disassoc Low Ack: Enable
Noise Immunity: Disable
QCA Q-Boost / TDMA: Disable
SIFS Trigger Time (ms): 0
Protection Mode: RTS/CTS
RTS Threshold: Enable
Threshold: 784
Airtime Policy: Disabled
Short Preamble: Enable
Short GI: Enable
TX Antenna Chains: 1+2+3+4
RX Antenna Chains: 1+2+3+4
AP Isolation: Disable
Beacon Interval: 400
DTIM Interval: 1
Airtime Fairness: Disable
WMM Support: Enable
ScanList: default
Sensitivity Range (ACK Timing): 3150
Max Associated Clients: 256
Minimum Signal for authenticate: -128
Minimum Signal for connection: -128
Poll Time for signal lookup: 10
Amount of allowed low signals: 3
Multicast To Unicast: Disable
Network Configuration: Bridged
Radio Scheduling: Disable
I worked my way back through releases to find out if this problem had a starting point -- it first shows up with r44809. I wasn't looking at the firmware choices during much of my testing, and I don't know if there when having a choice between VANILLA and DD-WRT came about.
Don't get me wrong -- I'm pleased with the performance and stability of the R7800. It just took longer to get it working correctly than I expected. I was able to find little documentation on DD-WRT vs VANILLA firmware. I expected a problem like this to be hitting more people, but maybe I just a lot of old systems around.
kernel-panic69 wrote:
@ho1Aetoo, I didn't mean to remove your first comment regarding vanilla vs. dd-wrt driver and firmware from this thread, but I didn't see the above part of the post until just now. I will include it here for posterity:
ho1Aetoo wrote:
Is all known.
We already noticed when the dd-wrt firmware was introduced that it has performance problems here and there with certain clients.
The vanilla firmware is the "old" firmware that ran for years on the dd-wrt atheros routers without problems.
Has its reasons why many use the vanilla firmware.
and just because there are problems with a specific WLAN firmware does not mean that the R7800 has general problems with any clients.
In general, it has one of the best and most stable WLANs.
and again this is not the WLAN driver but the firmware for the WLAN chipset
firmware and drivers are two different things
the used drivers are:
Code:
/lib/modules/4.9.xxx/ath10k <- atheros WLAN driver for AC chipsets
/lib/modules/4.9.xxx/ath <- atheros shared Modul (contains the common shared regulatory code )
/lib/modules/4.9.xxx/mac80211 <- framework for SoftMAC wireless devices
/lib/modules/4.9.xxx/compat <- compatibility modul for older kernels
I don't see anything for AC and 80MHz channel width on the 6205 (because it's only a/b/g/n); you might get lucky on something that old to get 40MHz to work. You should probably stick to using it on the 2.4 band.
Both Centrino cards are likely able to be removed and a newer card of the same mini PCIe interface can be installed; I would have to do some research, but you could possibly upgrade to Atheros-based wi-fi cards. I was looking at this and some other upgrades to do on an older Dell that I was given recently. _________________ "Life is but a fleeting moment, a vapor that vanishes quickly; All is vanity"
Contribute To DD-WRT Pogo - A minimal level of ability is expected and needed... DD-WRT Releases 2023 (PolitePol)
DD-WRT Releases 2023 (RSS Everything)
----------------------
Linux User #377467 counter.li.org / linuxcounter.net
I don't see anything for AC and 80MHz channel width on the 6205 (because it's only a/b/g/n); you might get lucky on something that old to get 40MHz to work. You should probably stick to using it on the 2.4 band.
Both Centrino cards are likely able to be removed and a newer card of the same mini PCIe interface can be installed; I would have to do some research, but you could possibly upgrade to Atheros-based wi-fi cards. I was looking at this and some other upgrades to do on an older Dell that I was given recently.
Two of these systems are Lenovos, which have a whitelist of allowed wifi cards. The 6205 is the only network card for the Thinkpad X220T that supports 5GHz. The other, a Lenovo G470, doesn't even support that card, so we're stuck at 2.4GHz for it. The G470 originally had an Atheros card in it, but it had significant problems talking to our WRT1200ACv2 router, so I replaced it with the Intel 6150, which worked fine. I could have fixed that problem by changing the 2.4GHz radio from NG-Mixed to Mixed, I found out later.
The other 6205 is in a work-owned machine, a Dell. I believe that an 8260 would work in it, but it's not a system that we own, so I don't want to spend our money on it.
These three machines are all 8-9 years old. The Thinkpad will probably run forever -- the G470 is gradually disintegrating (cheap plastic case, which I've replaced quite a bit of) and should be replaced soon. _________________ Netgear R9000
Netgear R7800 (spare)
Linksys WRT1200ac v2 (spare)
I will have to see if any such restrictions apply to that older Dell I have currently sitting in a closet. I'm tempted to trade win10 for some flavor of Linux on it...
I will have to see if any such restrictions apply to that older Dell I have currently sitting in a closet. I'm tempted to trade win10 for some flavor of Linux on it...
... anyhow, back to topic, the R7800 is definitely worth the switch for longevity. Anyone wanting to get rid of their Marvell feel free to let me know.
As far as I know, Dell doesn't do whitelists like that. I've got the repair manuals for both of our Lenovos, and it's documented there. I have Fedora 34 on my old E6430, but it has 16G of memory and sn SSD drive to help things along. Currently I don't have a good reason to risk breaking the X220T, so no hacked BIOS for it.
I'm not giving my WRT1200AC -- it's a spare in case something happens to my R7800. Besides, I hold out hope that the problems might get resolved. _________________ Netgear R9000
Netgear R7800 (spare)
Linksys WRT1200ac v2 (spare)
