ms-9513 miniPCI VGA card used in a router?

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DTB
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2020 13:29    Post subject: ms-9513 miniPCI VGA card used in a router? Reply with quote
hi
has anyone ever tried to use ms-9513 VGA CARD with a router? It's based on ATI Rage XL chip.
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DTB
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2020 15:05    Post subject: Reply with quote
"IBM Micro-Star ATI Rage XL 59P2705 MS-9513 X225 Mini-PCI 71P847 Video Card"
blkt
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2020 17:03    Post subject: Reply with quote
No, but it should handle Wipeout nicely. Smile

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VT7b7V3Os8 | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqS1nL3of0c

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IG3hd1humM0 | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shfvNC2GiRw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyPt5TA378E | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXKMxNg-_0Y

https://gona.mactar.hu/ATI_3D_CIF/
kernel-panic69
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2020 18:18    Post subject: Reply with quote
Isn't it only 1MB of VRAM? That might be choppy, or not. The original vintage DooM, Duke Nuke'm or the original Quake, maybe, but it would look ugly.

If it's like similar PCI cards I've found, then it *might* be 8MB, which wouldn't be too bad.

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blkt
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2020 18:26    Post subject: Reply with quote
It's 8MB and XL is a cut down or mobile version of Pro.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2020 22:05    Post subject: Reply with quote
They've changed how much per chip over the years, it seems. I remember the old S3 Virge cards had 4 chips, each was 1MB. But the ATi Rage cards aren't that new, last I remember. It should run alright. Now I'm curious how well it would run GLQuake or Quake II.... haha
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DTB
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2020 23:06    Post subject: Reply with quote
yup, a simple framebuffer only needs 2Mbyte; 8Mbyte is a lot of video memory if your purpose is just to have a fb-console to show some basic graphics.

Anyway, Friday a local recycler offered an MS-9513 video card to me for the cost of a beer, and I got a chance to try it, even if I am just a bit confused about the reasons why it doesn't work at all.

A router like the Ubiquiti's RSP doesn't implement any PCI IO functionality, while the Miktronik's rb532 does implement it, hence a video card should have some chance.


  • the Mini PCI was introduced in version 2.2 of the PCI specification
  • hence it's a 3.3V-only bus
  • the Ati RAGE XL's chip is 5V tolerant
  • hence it should perfectly work in a 3.3V PCI bus


However, what I observed yesterday is too odds, because when the MS-9513 was installed in a 5V PCI system (Pentium4 PC, via miniPCI to PCI adapter) it was correctly revealed with the correct vendor ID and product ID, even if it didn't work and the Linux kernel immediately crashed after probing the card; whereas when MS-9513 was installed in a 3.3V PCI system (router rb532), the video was not even revealed as PCI device.

This makes me wonder if Ati Rage's chip in the MS-9513 card was somehow customized for IBM workstations since the MS-9513 was specifically made for being used for IBM's products.

Here is where things are confusing because the ATI Rage XL datasheet tells there are some hardware configuration pins, but they are unfortunately under the BGA chip, hence not directly accessible.

Mumble guys ...
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2020 23:47    Post subject: Reply with quote
the MS-9513 video card was used in IBM Intellistation Z Pro MS-9121 (Dual Xeon 604) Motherboard.

I cannot find the manual to check the miniPCI slot.
blkt
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2020 2:22    Post subject: Reply with quote
You might just have a bad card, but you are right it might have a customized BIOS or some board design changes.

Drivers for this series are a special kind of hell. It's more a combination of exercise in futility and the enjoyment of pain.

https://phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=ATI-RAGE-128-DDX-6.11.0

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=xf86-video-r128
kernel-panic69
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2020 5:25    Post subject: Reply with quote
If I am not mistaken, the onboard video for my antique PII-333 guts from and old HP Pavillion had an ATi Rage chip. Ran fine for text-based console on Slackware, but it's been a few years (around 12) since that one has seen the light of day. I just don't remember which era ATi Rage, though.
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DTB
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2020 12:55    Post subject: Reply with quote
blkt wrote:
You might just have a bad card, but you are right it might have a customized BIOS or some board design changes.


There is no ROM on the PCB, hence I suspect the problem is on the customized configuration of some of the pull-up and pull-down resistances around the BGA graphics chip.

Some might be not correctly set for the miniPCI's spec.

blkt wrote:
You might just have a bad card, but you
Drivers for this series are a special kind of hell. It's more a combination of exercise in futility and the enjoyment of pain.


I am running Linux k4.* on my rb532, and it has a kernel module for the Ati Rage XL video card; the real problem I cannot find an alternative solution.

I mean: is there another mini PCI video card known to work in a router?
kernel-panic69
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2020 17:12    Post subject: Reply with quote
That that RB router an x86 or x86_64? If not, VGA supported images likely don't exist. You can add a card all day long and probably not get output. Just my thoughts.

EDIT: Answered my own question regarding hardware in the RB532

https://openwrt.org/toh/mikrotik/rb532

So, it's a MIPS, which doesn't fit this sub-forum category whatsoever Wink

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DTB
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2020 19:49    Post subject: Reply with quote
kernel-panic69 wrote:

So, it's a MIPS, which doesn't fit this sub-forum category whatsoever Wink


I am also evaluating the purchase o an rb800 (PowerPC based router), to replace the rb532.
kernel-panic69
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2020 19:51    Post subject: Reply with quote
Understood, but I think neither being an x86/x86_64-based device, vga hardware support and output is likely not compiled into the firmware, anyway.
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