which low power DD-WRT router?

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jdjon
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Joined: 14 Aug 2018
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 7:58    Post subject: which low power DD-WRT router? Reply with quote
Now that the buffalo firmware has been made to no longer work on WT3020, my low power router use (+-1watt) is good for the trash. On is the hunt for a new DD-WRT lowest possible power consumption router. Considering the future I'd look for 16ROM-64RAM minimum.

I know there is the hardware database, but that does not give me power consumption, which I'm after.

What low power suggestions are out there?
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danielwritesback
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Joined: 29 Aug 2011
Posts: 126

PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 16:10    Post subject: Re: which low power DD-WRT router? Reply with quote
jdjon wrote:
Now that the buffalo firmware has been made to no longer work on WT3020, my low power router use (+-1watt) is good for the trash. On is the hunt for a new DD-WRT lowest possible power consumption router. Considering the future I'd look for 16ROM-64RAM minimum.

I know there is the hardware database, but that does not give me power consumption, which I'm after.

What low power suggestions are out there?


You may be looking for https://www.gl-inet.com/products/
Single core, single band, Atheros and mediatek SOC run very cool, which is an indicator of electricity consumption.
jdjon
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Joined: 14 Aug 2018
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:16    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thanks, same thing for the GL-INET, they are not dd-wrt supported.
danielwritesback
DD-WRT User


Joined: 29 Aug 2011
Posts: 126

PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:38    Post subject: Reply with quote
https://store.gl-inet.com/products/gl-ar150-mini-smart-router?variant=3092579975195 is listed at the dd-wrt ftp site.

However, most of the gl.inet have custom openwrt+gui installed factory standard, so that dd-wrt is not needed. Indeed, the labor could be far less with the factory-supported openwrt. This is basically the same upstream source as dd-wrt, except cherry picked and tested. And the likelihood of working updates is better.

It seems that the main difference is in supporting a much smaller variety of hardware, since that is what makes quality control possible.

DD-WRT:
Since summer 2018, the focus of dd-wrt has been on routers that use the most electricity, as in the latest and fastest, with enough power to vpn quickly.
What time there is for quality control, goes for those routers.

That's a real a problem with energy saver + dd-wrt, since that combination is the least likely to have a successful update. If you choose to attempt it, the odds are better with springtime 2018 and earlier versions. The make/break point may be 36079, since versions newer than that, are less likely to work on low power routers. The majority of faults occur at upstream sources that also concentrate on vpn-worthy energy-hungry routers; and, it is impossible to thoroughly quality control on the vast variety of hardware that possibly runs dd-wrt.
jdjon
DD-WRT Novice


Joined: 14 Aug 2018
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 16:29    Post subject: Reply with quote
danielwritesback wrote:
... DD-WRT:
Since summer 2018, the focus of dd-wrt has been on routers that use the most electricity, as in the latest and fastest, with enough power to vpn quickly.
What time there is for quality control, goes for those routers.

That's a real a problem with energy saver + dd-wrt, since that combination is the least likely to have a successful update. If you choose to attempt it, the odds are better with springtime 2018 and earlier versions. The make/break point may be 36079, since versions newer than that, are less likely to work on low power routers. The majority of faults occur at upstream sources that also concentrate on vpn-worthy energy-hungry routers; and, it is impossible to thoroughly quality control on the vast variety of hardware that possibly runs dd-wrt.


Oh no ! Was there an official announcement dd-wrt would stop low power devices? Where does one go to for low power devices when not wanting openwrt?
Sam1789
DD-WRT User


Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 284

PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 18:22    Post subject: Reply with quote
@jdjon,

A couple of things
1) Your question probably belongs in the "General Questions" thread. And there you'd most likely get more people seeing your post.
2) The selection of routers for coverage by dd-wrt builds is driven differently than you appear to think it is. It's more from other factors like the interest that people have in those routers; the prevalence of their actual use; the availability of access to the drivers; the compatibility of their hardware with re-programing their FW; having enough nvram to put in a good build and at least one of the main builders here being willing to take it on.
3) And you're mistaking that the routers you're interested in were created to save energy (be more green) by consuming low power. That is not really the case, they are more intended to fill router/vpn needs when there is not a lot of power available. And when one doesn't want to carry along or doesn't have the space for larger routers and lots of cables & a heftier transformer wall plug. Well and because of the hype that faster WiFi is always absolutely required.
4) Have you ever actually measured the power draw by different routers? It might surprise you to find out how low it often really is. For instance my "big" LinkSys wrt3200's which come with a relatively large large 2.5 Amp wall wart, are actually only drawing 0.17 to 0.19 amps @12v.

hth
Sam

_________________
new multi-tier router stack in progress
wrt 3200's for speed & cpu power, NG R6300v2's for WiFi AP's,
wrt 1200v2 for one of my secure subnets.

Cliff Notes- DD-WRT Installation, Upgrade & Basic Setup
http://www.dd-wrt.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=311117
Tutorial for flashing "WRT" series
http://www.dd-wrt.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=287813


Last edited by Sam1789 on Sat Sep 15, 2018 18:27; edited 1 time in total
mrjcd
DD-WRT Guru


Joined: 31 Jan 2015
Posts: 4065
Location: Texas

PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 18:26    Post subject: Reply with quote
https://wiki.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Supported_Devices
jdjon
DD-WRT Novice


Joined: 14 Aug 2018
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 19:33    Post subject: Reply with quote
Sam1789 wrote:
...Have you ever actually measured the power draw by different routers? It might surprise you to find out how low it often really is. For instance my "big" LinkSys wrt3200's which come with a relatively large large 2.5 Amp wall wart, are actually only drawing 0.17 to 0.19 amps @12v.

hth
Sam
[/size]

Thanks Sam.

Going off-topic, I'm using:
http://www.tpcdb.com/list.php?type=11
the wrt3200 is listed at 11 watt, only from 1 user sharing their measurement. You come in whopping under 3 watt, idle?
I use a watt meter before the wall amp (so including the wall amp consumption). On the WT3020 which I'm looking to retire because dd-wrt no longer flashes to it, when using openvpn I get a draw of 1.2 watt when I throw all my use at it; streaming TV in HD, music streaming, computer updating, etc. all at the same time. Agruably the wifi reception doesn't go to the back of the garden, but I don't need that ... Arguably, my openvpn provider caps at 1 MB/sec, but I don't need more ...

Back to topic, it is sad to see choices limited to openwrt now for low power / travel devices ... I love dd-wrt! and hunt a low power / small dd-wrt router!
danielwritesback
DD-WRT User


Joined: 29 Aug 2011
Posts: 126

PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:44    Post subject: Reply with quote
jdjon wrote:
Back to topic, it is sad to see choices limited to openwrt now for low power / travel devices

That assumption doesn't work.

1). Quite a few low power devices are supported by dd-wrt, currently. ftp://ftp.dd-wrt.com/betas/2018/ Low power devices get updates. Read the build announcement threads to determine suitability.

2). Focus of dd-wrt and openwrt, are on greater functionality, usually involving a strong cpu for vpn. The most useful devices get the most attention, for both dd-wrt and openwrt.

3). Neither dd-wrt or openwrt are superior at supporting low power devices. However, a custom modified version (of either) could be better. Read on their forums to determine suitability.

4). Router manufacturers document power; however, if it is modern and has a cord, the power draw is a wide range that varies by usage (how many gigabit and usb). Battery powered models could do differently, mainly because of fewer ports.
jdjon wrote:
Now that the buffalo firmware has been made to no longer work on WT3020, my low power router use (+-1watt) is good for the trash.

Did it break?
Or is it unchanged?
jdjon wrote:
...I get a draw of 1.2 watt when I throw all my use at it; streaming TV in HD, music streaming, computer updating, etc. all at the same time....

That looks like lot of battleships for one bathtub.
Is that also connected to a cable modem?

Can you explain what appears to be a restricted allotment for only the router?

The only thing I can guess is rf sensitivity, such as rf related anxiety, malaise, myopia, headaches. The first two are mitigated by changing the weird 10z down to 3hz by setting, beacon 300, dtim 2, cts on. The next two are mitigated by relocating the router away from your sight, such as placing it in the closet or a different room. A sensible power setting and a firewall script to scrape off junk packets so they're not propagated to the wifi, are reasonable as well.
Anyway, these concerns are mitigated at the wifi, not the power input.
jdjon
DD-WRT Novice


Joined: 14 Aug 2018
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:51    Post subject: Reply with quote
danielwritesback wrote:

1). Quite a few low power devices are supported by dd-wrt, currently.


Can you suggest a low power dd-wrt that's currently sold new?

danielwritesback wrote:

2). Focus of dd-wrt and openwrt, are on greater functionality, usually involving a strong cpu for vpn. The most useful devices get the most attention, for both dd-wrt and openwrt.

3). Neither dd-wrt or openwrt are superior at supporting low power devices. However, a custom modified version (of either) could be better. Read on their forums to determine suitability.


gl-inet gets support by openwrt, nexx gets support by openwrt, neither gets support by dd-wrt, and the firmware that used to work (the buffalo) no longer works (as documented by someone else on the dd-wrt forums, and I checked, it does indeed no longer work since June 2018). It is dd-wrt I wish to use though ... that's why I am willing to buy a new router, but it needs to be low power use. It needs to connect through ethernet to the cable modem.
danielwritesback
DD-WRT User


Joined: 29 Aug 2011
Posts: 126

PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:32    Post subject: Reply with quote
jdjon wrote:
Can you suggest a low power dd-wrt that's currently sold new?

Thanks! I understand that one much better.
You may have the nice problem that there isn't anything better to buy.
jdjon wrote:
... no longer work since June 2018...

That's not problematic. The best versions for single core this year were in Spring 2018.

The next update that you should consider, must also have relevance for modern use, such as the inter-client filter, aka iot firewall. Currently, security is an activity, not a firmware. In 2020, there is a scheduled security paradigm shift and compliance could obsolete much equipment, including almost new commercial equipment ending up on ebay. Since there's no future proof router available today, I suggest to enjoy the one that you have.

For more information on the good (and bad) that updates actually, do, see the official record: https://svn.dd-wrt.com/ <--facts
jdjon wrote:
It needs to connect through ethernet to the cable modem.

For relevance, sum the wattage from devices that are always used together, such as cable modem and router.

On the same amount of watts, you could get either case:
1). If energy is well used, it leaves the enclosure and doesn't put heat inside (Well used watts = 0 BTU).
2). If energy is wasted, it stays in the enclosure and builds up as heat (Each wasted watt = 3.4 BTU).

I did manage to buy a router that wastes too much electricity: My Netgear r6300v2, which slowly corrupted from heating itself until unstable.
Even then, the insubstantial electricity cost was swamped by equipment replacement cost.

My replacement was an Archer C7, which is slower, far more stable, and doesn't heat up the network closet. The versions that I wanted weren't available new. This was a retrenchment maneuver. I wanted the older model so that I wouldn't be limited to only newer firmware.
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